no verbal declaration, whats the rule?

[houstonCT]

home game. folds to SB, SB completes(400-800 blinds), BB makes it 3000 straight, SB immediately comes back all in for 13,100(not including the 3000 BB raise), so the raise is 10,100. BB thinks for a bit and throws in two blues(1000/e) and a white(100/e) thinking she has made the call. dealer lets her know she is short. She thought the blues were 5000 and decides she doesnt want to call. She never announced call, just threw the incorrect chips in.

it was ruled she could fold, but the 2100 stays in the pot.

was that correct?

she knew damn well that she had every intention of calling, but when she realized her stack wasnt what she thought it was, realized she didnt want to risk the chips.

but she never verballized anything.

[psandman]

I think this is a call.

you open the game up to much to much angle shooting if you allow her to fold here.

If she was misled as to the bet size it would be different, but here she knew exactly what the bet was she was mistaken about her own stack.

[Khabbi]

I think that the ruling you made was fair. She seems to have legitimately forgot the chip denoms, which can happen in home games.

Did you have posters to display the chip denoms? If you didn't, you should have 2 or 3 on the walls around your poker table for cases just like this.

[Gorby]

This has been an issue for me as well, so we also hung up posters.

[Richter]

In most cardrooms, she must leave what was thrown in. She has an option of folding rather than completing.

[Monkfish79]

[ QUOTE ]
In most cardrooms, she must leave what was thrown in. She has an option of folding rather than completing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds fair to me.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In most cardrooms, she must leave what was thrown in. She has an option of folding rather than completing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds fair to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not really sure why you think this sounds fair. It makes zero sense to me. You see the way i see it, either her action constituted a call or it didn't. If it constituted a call then she should be required to call the bet. If it didn't constitute a call, why should she have to leave any money in the pot? And why should the other player get a bonus of chips that otherwise don't belong in the pot.

[Monkfish79]

It makes sense to punish the player to have made the mistake. Giving the choice of either taking back the call or calling the full bet gives the advantage to the wrong player. They may also have also unfairly gained some information from the other player's reaction to the situation.

The only alternative I'm familiar with is dependant on what proportion of the bet was called. If it was less than half it can be taken back (or completed), but if half or more the full call must be completed.

Both have their pros and cons but I'm always in favour of punishing the player to have made the error to encourage them to pay more attention in future.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
It makes sense to punish the player to have made the mistake. Giving the choice of either taking back the call or calling the full bet gives the advantage to the wrong player. They may also have also unfairly gained some information from the other player's reaction to the situation.

The only alternative I'm familiar with is dependant on what proportion of the bet was called. If it was less than half it can be taken back (or completed), but if half or more the full call must be completed.

Both have their pros and cons but I'm always in favour of punishing the player to have made the error to encourage them to pay more attention in future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still doesn't make sense to me to then not make it call and require the player complete the call.

But in tournament play letting a player but in some chips and then fold would be a great opportunity for two players working together to dump chips. Because the players fold no one gets to see the cards so they don't have to worry about being second guessed, and this also allows a player to dump just the right amount of chips to the other player.

Eaxample -- My partner has a smallish stack and I have a large stack. He when everyone else is out of the hand he pushes all-in , I don't actaully want to double him up but I do want to bring his stack up so throw in the amount of chips I want him to have and then fold my hand. The fact that I just folded to nuts will not be known to anyone since my hand gets mucked.

[smoore]

Sounds like she can take her bet back. She made a mistake, thought she had a holy-crapton of chips and then was shown she didn't. She then decided to fold.