Is this a horrible play?

[dcasper70]

First off, that hand is really, really bad. O8 is about draws to the nuts, or flopping strong hands with strong redraws.
This hand doesn't offer those options. And even when you do get the miracle flop (like here), you end up playing for half the pot with a hand that cannot improve.
You set yourself up to let someone freeroll you.

IMO, flopping the nut straight with no redraws for high and a weak low on a low flop (2+ low cards), and continuing on, is a leak. If you fold in this situation every time, for the rest of your life, you will be ahead.

Look at it this way...
If you had to replay this hand, in this position, with this flop, one million times, how do you think you'd fare?

[niss]

[ QUOTE ]
the...uh...
nope, youre right! teach me to post while masturbating

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I thought I read.

[WildBobAA]

thanks for the replies

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I"m trying to learn Omaha 8.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me, too. Of course, I'm playing .25/.50 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. I'm going to try to analyze this without looking at any other responses.

Preflop: This hand is garbage. You shouldn't be completing it.

Flop: You're playing too hard. This hand isn't going to play for low on this board, and although you're CURRENTLY high, there's a very strong chance you won't be by the end of the hand. Bet and call the raise from BB, who looks like he's going for low, but gets worried about quartering when you 3-bet.

Turn: The king doesn't help you, doesn't hurt you. Check/call.

River: Now you can bet, since you have nut high, but had you been more passive on earlier streets you might be able to pull a c/r on a low-only bet from BB.

[booger]

maybe he has a bankroll bigger than yours

[greatwhite]

Fold preflop. This hand sucks.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe he has a bankroll bigger than yours

[/ QUOTE ]

Not for long.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
maybe he has a bankroll bigger than yours

[/ QUOTE ]

Not for long.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anybody that can make a flopped straight hold up is OK by me. I've got to be somewhere around 10% on my flopped straights holding up. (It's probably more than that but it seems like 10%) [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Come to think of it, I usually play these like a chicken in the early rounds. It might be better to go ahead and blast it like OP did so you get paid off well when it actually does hold up. Hold on, I'll run some numbers and be right back.

.....

Ok, here's OP's hand against all the possible draws on the flop:

Calculation results from Poker Calculator 1.1.4.1
Omaha Hold'em hi/lo 8/b, 528 combinations tested.

Board: 4d7s3c x x

Hand | QsTd6s5c | AdJc8h2d | Ac7d7c5h | AsJhTs6h |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+
High | 173 | 0 | 218 | 24 |
Draw | 36 | 6 | 42 | 0 |
Lose | 294 | 112 | 186 | 504 |
Scoop | 18 | 29 | 30 | 0 |
Low | 7 | 381 | 57 | 0 |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+
Win% | 22.16% | 41.86% | 33.71% | 2.27% |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+

So OP is 22% on the flop. Raising or calling is about equal. Here is after the turn:

Calculation results from Poker Calculator 1.1.4.1
Omaha Hold'em hi/lo 8/b, 32 combinations tested.

Board: 4d7s3c Kd x

Hand | QsTd6s5c | AdJc8h2d | Ac7d7c5h | AsJhTs6h |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+
High | 14 | 0 | 10 | 0 |
Draw | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
Lose | 16 | 4 | 18 | 32 |
Scoop | 1 | 6 | 0 | 0 |
Low | 0 | 22 | 3 | 0 |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+
Win% | 25.78% | 53.13% | 21.09% | 0.0% |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+

So after the turn card OP is 25%. Again calling or raising is about equal.

Now, here's the problem with a nut straight using a 5 and 6. If someone else has a 5,6 also the it looks like this on the flop:

Calculation results from Poker Calculator 1.1.4.1
Omaha Hold'em hi/lo 8/b, 528 combinations tested.

Board: 4d7s3c x x

Hand | QsTd6s5c | AdJc8h2d | 7d7c6c5h | AsJhTs6h |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+
High | 0 | 0 | 248 | 20 |
Draw | 278 | 3 | 278 | 3 |
Lose | 281 | 135 | 53 | 421 |
Scoop | 0 | 29 | 0 | 4 |
Low | 0 | 361 | 0 | 80 |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+
Win% | 13.16% | 39.82% | 36.65% | 10.37% |
------+--------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+

So now OP is 13% and raising doesn't look so good. Calling doesn't look so hot either. People are more likely to be seeing a flop with 5,6 than if it was 7,8 or 8,9 so it looks like in this situation where the pot wasn't raised or 3 bet multiway preflop it's best to just fold this on the flop.

Now, if OP had another draw like say the 10 was a 2 then it makes more sense to stick around.

By the way OP, I play around 60% of my hands from the SB and this isn't one of them. So I agree with pretty much everyone else.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody that can make a flopped straight hold up is OK by me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only Shania can MAKE a flopped straight hold up. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
After this hand the guy said I made a horrible play. I'm trying to understand why/if this is bad.

[/ QUOTE ]Wild Bob (What a great name!) Looks O.K. to me. I might or might not play the hand exactly the same, but I don't see anything you did that was "horrible."

Your opponents shouldn't tend to be voluntarily playing hands with a five and six, so that you're probably not going to get quartered for high.

Maybe you give your hand away with the jamming (thanks, Phil) on the flop. For that reason, I'd probably just call the raise on the flop, but then I'd blast away on the turn and river.

We'll all agree your starting hand is crap, but for a half bet from the small blind..... well..... I don't know if I'd play it as a starting hand or not. Seems close. But then you have to like the flop, turn, and river.

Buzz