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  #11  
Old 05-31-2006, 09:36 PM
Rednax Rednax is offline
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Default Re: Preflop decisions... I hate easily dominated offsuit cards in big pots

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Hero is in late middle position with KJo on a table of fish

1) limp, limp, Hero?
2) limp, limp, limp, Hero?
3)What about with KJs?

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I'll usually call, if the table and the players behind me aren't too aggressive. With at least two limpers already you're getting decent odds; just need to not spew post flop. Yes, you could be dominated by a KQ or AJ but some of them will raise, and there will be people with QJ and JT and KT out there too. Take their money.

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4)Do you play QJo the same as KJo in these situations?

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Probably fold this.

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5) Do you ever complete in the SB with hands like A9o-A2o? What conditions would you do this and under what conditions would you raise these hands in the SB?

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Often. It's only 1/2 of a small bet, giving good odds if no one has raised PF. Not so fond of A6, A7. This would be at a generally passive table where I'm not expecting all sorts of insane postflop action.
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6) What do you do with JTo in the SB after a loose player open limps from button?

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Again, I'll often call, unless BB is awfully aggressive and likely to want to punish limper. But in a "friendly" game, 1/2 small bet seems worth it.
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7) Do you raise AQo from the SB or BB when there has been a ton of limpers?

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I'm more likely to do it with a ton of limpers since you're going to be paid so much better if you hit your 1 out of 3 chnace. It will be tough to play OOP if you don't hit, but with 5 or 6 limpers you're getting great odds just for an A or Q and you may very well get a worse A or Q to call you to showdown, or possibly even raise.
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8) Same as 7 but AJo

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I'm probably just calling here.
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9) Same as 7 but AQs/KQs/AJs

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The AQs I'm raising, the others I'm likely to just complete with.
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2006, 12:03 AM
marchron marchron is offline
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Default Re: Preflop decisions... I hate easily dominated offsuit cards in big pots

Hero is in late middle position with KJo on a table of fish

1) limp, limp, Hero?
2) limp, limp, limp, Hero?


I consider three-handed the breakeven point between multiway and not-multiway. So in 1) I raise to force out the rest of the field, and in 2) I limp.


3)What about with KJs?

The exact opposite. With a good multiway hand like KJs I want to encourage more limpers if there are only two in thus far, and raise for value with 3+ limpers.


4)Do you play QJo the same as KJo in these situations?

No. KJ >> QJ. I fold with two limpers and limp with 3+.


5) Do you ever complete in the SB with hands like A9o-A2o? What conditions would you do this and under what conditions would you raise these hands in the SB?

I would complete A9 or A8 no matter how many limpers. I would complete A7 or lower with only one, perhaps two limpers, otherwise I muck it.

I would only raise these hands from the SB if I want to isolate ONE terrible player who open-limped from LP.

***Caveat to all of the above: if one of the players in the pot is the kind of doofus who thinks "AK is just a drawing hand" and won't raise preflop with big aces, then I'm turbo-mucking in all instances unless he's super-loose.


6) What do you do with JTo in the SB after a loose player open limps from button?

Raise.


7) Do you raise AQo from the SB or BB when there has been a ton of limpers?

Yes.


8) Same as 7 but AJo

No.


9) Same as 7 but AQs/KQs/AJs

Insta-raise. Now we have a badass multiway hand in a multiway pot. Super-value there.
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2006, 09:55 AM
RobNottsUk RobNottsUk is offline
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Default Re: Preflop decisions... I hate easily dominated offsuit cards in big pots

Quite amused by idea of 'forcing ppl behind'out by raising, in SSHE. We all know the #1 error is cold-calling, and lots of players check the box, only looking at their hole cards, so never get to see who is raising, but are just rote players.

This may explain the 'fashion' for re-raising Early Pos Solid raiser with AQo rather than folding, I have begun to detect. Quite effective, when you raised with AQ, and perceive the re-raiser as fairly solid player!

I love the idea of break even point, between top pair pots and multi-way. But remember, thinning the field, means you get to play against the best hands your opponents hold. Only the disciplined players will be capable of folding better hands, than that you are raising with.

That guy who will limp in with any 2 cards, and call all way to the river with a pair of 2's. You really, really sure you want to him out of the pot?
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2006, 11:57 AM
Xhad Xhad is offline
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Default Re: Preflop decisions... I hate easily dominated offsuit cards in big

1) limp
2) limp
3) raise
4) in these situations yes, but there are definitely situations where I fold QJ but call or raise KJ
5) yes. I complete all Ax with one limper or two bad limpers. I complete A9o more often than not unless I know my opponents are tricky postflop. Never raise unless there are no limpers, or you think you can make the BB fold and get HU with a passive limper (A8o-A7o are also adequate for this purpose)
6) raise if BB is tight, call if he's loose. never fold.
7) yes
8) no
9) not raising these is awful

in response to other posts -

marchron: With KJs I really don't care if I blow out the rest of the field or not; it's a good shorthanded hand and it's a good multiway hand. The only time I limp this is in B&M's where I know the players behind me tend to play reasonable against a raise, but if I limp they'll overlimp with things like K8o and automatically show down a pair of kings.

RobNottsUK: In most situations where we raise AQ we really don't care if people call or not.
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2006, 01:08 PM
marchron marchron is offline
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Default Re: Preflop decisions... I hate easily dominated offsuit cards in big pots

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Quite amused by idea of 'forcing ppl behind'out by raising, in SSHE. We all know the #1 error is cold-calling, and lots of players check the box, only looking at their hole cards, so never get to see who is raising, but are just rote players.

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True, it may not work. It probably won't work. But anyone who cold-calls does so to their detriment. It's a mistake by them. But overlimping with KJ allows everyone behind us to play all the hands they'd play for one bet but not two. Sometimes, that's a pretty substantial list of hands. If we had a better multiway hand this would be less of a problem, but I don't want to face "schooling" holding KJ if I can help it. Allowing the pot to go multiway is a mistake by us.

When we're already multiway, we're basically at that point already. In that case, KJ is too good a hand to fold but not enough of a hand to play against all of them for two bets and bloat the pot.

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This may explain the 'fashion' for re-raising Early Pos Solid raiser with AQo rather than folding, I have begun to detect. Quite effective, when you raised with AQ, and perceive the re-raiser as fairly solid player!

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I don't reraise an early-position solid raiser with AQ. I take loose raisers and bad players to level 3 with AQ, but that's about it.

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I love the idea of break even point, between top pair pots and multi-way. But remember, thinning the field, means you get to play against the best hands your opponents hold. Only the disciplined players will be capable of folding better hands, than that you are raising with.

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Your point is? The odds may be small that we get a better hand to fold, but when it happens it's a major coup.

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That guy who will limp in with any 2 cards, and call all way to the river with a pair of 2's. You really, really sure you want to him out of the pot?

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Sometimes, yes. Because sometimes he'll river trips or two pair if the board goes K82-4. If I can successfully get him out of the pot in such a circumstance, then I win.
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