Could anyone in the world have lost less with these pocket kings?

[KSOT]

[ QUOTE ]
So in a NL cash table you are dealt AA in the BB and 6 people move all in before you. You can probably justify folding, right?

Haupt_234

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF kind of crack are you smoking? Aces are the best hand and there are no more betting streets to consider. Not the same situation at all.

[tsrcess]

no doubt, i would have lost more on this hand. but, i hardly think that makes me a worse player...

[Grease]

This play is so bad, I almost threw up on my computer screen.

Chesspain is a great player, and I couldn't agree more with his reasoning/explanations.

This play is extrodiarily weak-tight, and I cannot endorse it in any way. I most likely go to showdown with the kings here9 times out of 10, assuming the turn/river action doesn't get to be too crazy.

This hand made me physically sick.

[KSOT]

[ QUOTE ]
This play is so bad, I almost threw up on my computer screen.

Chesspain is a great player, and I couldn't agree more with his reasoning/explanations.

This play is extrodiarily weak-tight, and I cannot endorse it in any way. I most likely go to showdown with the kings here9 times out of 10, assuming the turn/river action doesn't get to be too crazy.

This hand made me physically sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You can argue all you want about the pre-flop raise, but to say you would go to showdown 9/10 times when a female TAG waits for the turn to raise a paired board is just downright atrocious. You are spewing chips all over the place. I'm sorry to say it, but it doesn't sound like you're a very good player at all. Sometimes big pockets pairs aren't good enough to take to showdown. Sounds like you're going to learn that the hard way over the course of your career.

[tsrcess]

just 'cause the k,k should certainly have been raised in the bb does not necessarily mean it has to be taken to showdown. if a player is very good, that player will be capable of some big folds. here, the fold very well may have been correct...

[Hielko]

[ QUOTE ]
very good player at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, look who's talking.

[Nickoli]

Hi,

Personally, I think you could save money simply by folding preflop. Sure, you could see the flop for free in the BB, but if you aren't going to raise with KK you probably wouldn't raise with AA in this situation so you aren't getting your money in when you have pot-equity... you might as well just fold and save those bets that you will lose to the chick later on.

(ALSO, It is possible that you TAG player would fold if you raised... unlikely, but possible. say she has T 6 instead of A T... she may let it go.)

Should've folded pre-flop. I'm going to go back to lurking now.

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This play is so bad, I almost threw up on my computer screen.

Chesspain is a great player, and I couldn't agree more with his reasoning/explanations.

This play is extrodiarily weak-tight, and I cannot endorse it in any way. I most likely go to showdown with the kings here9 times out of 10, assuming the turn/river action doesn't get to be too crazy.

This hand made me physically sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You can argue all you want about the pre-flop raise, but to say you would go to showdown 9/10 times when a female TAG waits for the turn to raise a paired board is just downright atrocious. You are spewing chips all over the place. I'm sorry to say it, but it doesn't sound like you're a very good player at all. Sometimes big pockets pairs aren't good enough to take to showdown. Sounds like you're going to learn that the hard way over the course of your career.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you played the hand well on the flop and preflop then I would have probably seen showdown most of the time. Your fold becomes correct only because you kept the pot small, the thing is that you gave up so much value preflop that your postflop play really does become meaningless as long as you are not a pure calling station. At bare minimum you gave up a full bet preflop, and I'm willing to bet it's more like two bets. 1 bet is hard to make up postflop, 2 is near impossible over time, yes Skalnsky does talk about keeping the pot small, or manipulating the pot to make players call incorrectly, but there are times when the equity of doing the right thing now, far outweighs the mistake a player may make later.

Further when this opening decision gets to you there are already 9sb in the pot, the pot is already large, you will likely not have the oportunity to create incorrect calls based on pot odds later. Raise it up.

[Blowup Doll]

[ QUOTE ]
It would take a fortuitous flop for KK to hold up against 8 people. The +EV is not as good as some of you suspect. In a 9-way pot, it's only slightly better than medium suited connectors. If I raise pre-flop, then anyone who flops a better hand will undoubtedly make a bundle off me because they'll have position on me. Anyone who makes a mediocre hand will be more likely to chase and draw out because I made the pot so much bigger with my PFR. If the flop had been safer, my chances of winning it unimproved would've been greater since I didn't bloat the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. KK sucks. You should have just folded pf.

[img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Malcom Reynolds]

We're pretty unanimous in agreeing that preflop sucked and the title is incredibly results-oriented. Let's just all move on to the next hand shall we?