Alan Goerhing

[shaniac]

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Due to the propensity of people on this forum to put words into my mouth, don't expect too many posts from me in the future. Is this how you got rid of Paul Philips?

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Of course. If JD Sallinger came on to 2+2 to tell us what he's been up to for the last forty years, no doubt he'd be flamed for being the most overrated author of the 20th Century. Articulate and high profile-yet-enigmatic figures in the poker world don't really hold our collective intellectual interest. Your post count really isn't that impressive, btw.


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BTW, I have a pretty good grasp of statistics, so I understanding all about insufficient data points and biased samples. I am surprised no one pointed out the non-static nature of poker players relative abilites over extended time periods.

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Statistics NOT being my forte, could you eleaborate on the last sentence here? Are you talking about what we layman might refer to as hot streaks and/or slumps, or good players who start to play bad?

Also, since you are a well known structure-hound, doesn't it sort of bother you that the Bellagio-model structures jump from 100/200 a25 to 200/400 a25, thereby eliminating the nuance of the 150/300 level and a lot of the deep-stack benefits of starting with 20K?

[Smoothcall]

Of course i am a little agitated. You dids and some others attacked me for no reason. I said or did nothing to you. I had a conversation with Alan G. He made some statements that were very insulting and untrue imo about Phil hellmuth nd i called him on it. What is worng with that? I am not driving Alan away. I just questioned his bold claims is all. Do you really think little old me is gonna scare aay poker authorities becasue i disagee with them? Do you really think the man is that thin skinned? You just don't like it becasue you believe in kissing butt to celebrities i think. I don't. I judge them like any other poster. If i think he says somthing correct i will say so. But i feel he was incorrect. I'm not trying to drive alan or any other celebritiy away. But i dont feel they can make any bold claim they want and i cant quesiton it becasue you and others dont like it. I would like to se Alan post more. He seems like a nice and smart guy and would be great contributer to the forum. I just dont agree with his sttements about hellmuth compared to him. I dont see Alan's play much more complex than hellmuths like he said.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do but it doesnt make it correct. I'm a nice guy. I stick to the facts ALL the time and like good discussion. I got a bad rep here and i may never be able to change that. But it doesnt mean i dont have the right to speak my mind in a discussion. If you notice i always keep to the facts and dont resort to insults like everyone who is agaisnt me does. Maybe they are worng and not me? Anyway i got nothing agaisnt yuou but you posted to me about what im doing wotng with my posts so i am only defending myself. Notice i never told you how or how you should post. Feel free to speak what you like. I wish you would feel i hd the same right. I hope no hard feelings and i'll try to be even nicer than i already am to the celebs to make you guys happy if thats what i need to do for you guys to not give me such a hard time. But if they make statements llike Alan did i will call them out. But in a nice way. And i don't see Alan G. as an authority on poker. Just becasue you feel he is doesn't make i so. He seems like a nice guy and probbaly a smart guy. But i dont agree an authority on poker jmo. And if you asked many other tourney pros i think they would tell you the same thing i just said as i have heard that before.

[Smoothcall]

You nned to read Alan's original statement. He didnt say what you said. that it just wanted to make him puke because so many people said it. If that was the case then why the need to say no offense phil? There would be nothing offensive if he wasnt insuling him would there? He said in the same thought that it makes him want to puke when people compare his(phil hllmuth's) style to his own style beasue he(Alan) feels his own style is better. That he plays a deep stack better and his play is MUCH more complex than Phil hellmuths. Do you see what that statement is saying? It is
saying it makes him want to puke becasue phils style is inferior to his. Not just make him want to puke becasue so many say it and its not true. If that was the case he wouldnt have mentioned that his style is more complex and he plays a bigger stack better.

You ask who cares. Well i do. Thats why i asked. If someone is gonna insult another famous player and call them out they should be prepared to get questions on it. Isnt that fair? I didnt ask him what he thought of those players he decided to make the bold statements. Then di [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]nt want to admit and explain them when confronted. Notice how later he says he know who is overrated and who is not but said he doesnt want to share. Why? out of respect. The respect he didnt show phil hellmuth. And htis is news views and gossip so i dont mind that he's makijg statements about players but he should be prepared to discuss and efend them if he's gonna make such bold statements. Especially when his statemnts are most likely false. I didnt mean to bager him. I just asked why he beleieve that and instead of answering he backpeddled and made it seem he didnt say it. Then he insulted me with an abrupt short reply about 9 bracelets not 10. I was sad to see that becasue i thought more of him and his personality from television. I guess he just wanted us to kiss his feet as he told us that he was a muh better big stack player than pphil hellmuth and that his style is much more complex than his. He came to the wrong forum if he thinks we're stupid and will not quesiton his statements. I' surprised noone else has quesitoned these bold statements. What if Annie Duke came on and said she was by far superior to danil n.? You dont think anyone would have quesitons for her?

OK fair enough that i shouldnt keep asking. But i only asked him one other time. I dont see that as badgering. But i will only ask once for now on. But i just hate it when people dodge my quesitons. Its such a weak move so i go for the raise lol. But i will try to be nicer.

Nice talking to you. I hope i didnt upset you. I seem to have that effect on people. And i'm sorry if i did.

[sirio11]

FWIW I have played with Alan in live tournaments several times (at least 3 I remember). And I really enjoyed watch him in action and to play some pots with him each time. He's so creative, he's like a poker artist. Sometimes it appears like some of his plays don't make sense, but if you pay attention, sometimes you may be able to see the beauty. Of course he make mistakes like everybody else, but I really enjoy playing with creative players, and there are not too many of them. Carlos Mortensen is another example of a creative player. I have always enjoyed more the finesse of intelligence over the brute force of aggression in poker.

[nath]

Due to the propensity of people on this forum to put words into my mouth, don't expect too many posts from me in the future.

Slow clap for the NVG forum, one time!

Jesus. A pro comes here to post and share a few of his ideas and people drive him away. Special credit goes to smoothcall on this one for his gift of taking statements out of context and insulting / arguing with people to endless degrees for no reason. How many times does he get to do this, anyway?

I'm just pissed because I like watching Alan play and wanted to read more of his thoughts. Instead all I'm going to see are four run-on paragraphs from smoothcall explaining why he feels justified in insulting Alan and which will probably insult me as well whether or not he intends them to.

[Clayton]

can someone please ban vince aka smoothcall? troll that has gotten past banning for the longest time now...

[fatmanonguitar]

you have to be the most annoying person ever. . . .

That's not a nice way to speak about Phil Hellmuth's mom.

[fnord_too]

Shaniac,

The last senstence refers to the fact that a poker players ability is not static; sometimes you play better or worse than your "average" (actually, in my experience, I am almost always playing better or worse than my average game). I'll add in that the competition is not static, either, in how they play or, more importantly, who they actually are (i.e. you see a lot of different line ups).

All this means is that statistics when it comes to poker players paint the picture with a very broad brush. That is, there will always be a large margin of error regardless of sample size because the environment is dynamic. If you were say looking at the US population and were interested in what percentage of the people had a specific trait, you could go out and get a random sample (well, even that is harder than it sounds) and know your statistical margin of error pretty precisely. But if you took your sample over say 25 years, your confidence interval could be way off becuase the population has changed so much in the time period (a whole new generation has been born). Your confidence interval may be accurate or not, you just don't know.

I don't know that I explained that very well, so maybe this will help: Statistics are good for static or controlled population. The more dynamic the population (or the traits under investigation) the less accurate the statistics become. All the confidence intervals that are bandied about here (when people even do look at statistics) are assuming a stable subject, which is a bad assumption. I don't know how to modify the confidence intervals for dynamic subjects. (Standard deviation measures variance, but again, AFAIK, of a static subject. Static in the sense that it's underlying characteristics don't change, not in the sense that it is invariable. If you are rolling fair dice, there is a lot of variance but the probabilities don't change. Maybe that is a better way of looking at it: Statistics assume fixed probabilities, but with poker, the probabilities are far from fixed.)

[trying2learn]

Instead all I'm going to see are four pages of four run-on paragraphs from smoothcall explaining why he feels justified in insulting Alan...

FYP


Here's the problem Smoothcall - you have said in your long-winded posts defending yourself that you are cool and nice. You've repeated these statements several times. I for one, don't know you - and couldn't tell you if I agree or not. However, you must know that there are few on this board who would agree because of the way you post, right?

I mean, if you don't...maybe that's part of the problem. You've taken a thread about Alan, WHICH ALAN WAS PARTICIPATING in, and turned into a thread where you and Dids go back and forth. It's a shame, really.

Just to be clear, I'm not attacking you - which will be the first thing you think. I'm trying to point out why you often feel you are attacked. Doesn't this get old to you?
Do yourself a favor and think about this for a bit before you respond with your standard line...it may help to break this cycle.

[Alan Goehring]

Hellmuth has criticized every player out there, including goerhing so he really has no right to be upset if someone criticizes his style.
(posted edited to removed insults - Dids)

I agree. After I won the WPT Championship, Phil wrote an article in Cardplayer Magazine saying I know nothing about poker becasue of some of the hands I played----he then gives numerous hand examples. No problem. My question is, how can we play the "same way" if he is so completely clueless as to my strategy? BTW, I did agree with his basic thesis that I either got "incredibly lucky" or I was playing "so far above the rim" that nobody knows how I did it.

The problem with Smoothcall is that he misquotes me and asks me some questions. I then try to correct him and respond to some of his questions. He then responds by essentially repeating his questions. I am not interested in answering the same questions over and over. I ask him not to waste my time. He then repeats the same questions.
If you don't have something intelligent and/or humorous to say, I see no need to respond.

Lets leave it at this. I consider myself a better deep chip player than Phil H. That is my opinion, and I am entitled to believe whatever I want. Smoothcall, you disagree---good for you. If you want to post empirical evidence to support your position----go ahead. The whole world is free to disagree, it still won't change my view.