75 Stud Hand Vs. Loaded Amateur

Jeffage · #1 05-25-2006, 12:21 PM

75 stud at the Taj. Villain in this hand is an extremely nice guy, but not a good player. He is extremely loose on all streets but not loose aggressive. When he jams agreesive with a hand, he usually has what he should (and by jamming, no I don't mean just completing third - he will do that with a wide range of hands). Anyway - here's the hand...

A three brings it in and it's folded to the villain who completes with the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Spades are deadish. There are only two people to act behind him (plus the bring-in) and I have the only other paint card.

I'm next and raise with (J,5) J. Everyone else folds back to villain who goes ahead and makes it 225 to go. I call.

4th Street

Villain: (x,x) K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero: (J,5) J 9

Villain bets and I call.

5th Street

Villain: (x,x) K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero: (J,5) J 9 5

Villain bets. Line for this street and the rest of the hand?

Thanks,
Jeff

Andy B · #2 05-25-2006, 12:34 PM

I would call down unless I filled, in which case I would raise. Well, if the other guy hits a King on sixth, I might get away from it, but probably not. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] You're probably ahead right now, but you can easily be overtaken, and you won't know when that happens. If you call him down, he will presumably keep betting when he's behind. If you raise, he's not going to fold anything that you want him to fold. This line wins close to the maximum when you wind up with the best hand, and loses the minimum when you don't.

CityFan · #3 05-25-2006, 01:07 PM

My instinct is to call down too. He's likely got those kings and might be enjoying the spades.

What about a three or an ace on sixth?

beta1607 · #4 05-25-2006, 01:14 PM

I would call down and bet if checked to

MRBAA · #5 05-25-2006, 01:51 PM

I'd walk the dog here and let him bet it. Same on sixth. If he checks sixth, I bet. If he checks the river, I think I take the free showdown, although it's close -- if he would not go for a c/r, and would likely bet kings up, then I bet my two pair here too.

jon_1van · #6 05-25-2006, 01:57 PM

I think playing this hand correctly depends on how tricky you think this guy is.

If this guy could 3-bet you w/o Ks up or better then you should just call down. (I'm guessing some could 3-bet you with Ks and 4 spades.)

If a 3-bet means your are already crushed you should raise/fold.

Obviously you check/fold if he pairs his board on 6th.

The river will depend alot on how likely you are to ::
-Get paid off by bare Ks
-Get c/red by air
-Get c/red by big made hands
-Get bet into by bare Ks

My thoughts about 5th could easily apply to 6th if you wait to raise there. And waiting till 6th might be best to pop it. But I've never really been one to wait till later to put my action in. I know the typical reasons to wait till later (your opponent might catch real good and you want to fold)(you'll only get 1 bet in anyway so you might as well wait till your edge is biggest ie when the hand is almost over) However, I've never really been 100% convinced that its best to wait.

Its seems to me that limit poker is easier to play correctly when the pot is large. So by bloating the pot when you are pretty sure you're ahead you are "insuring" that your later street decisions are better. I realize that you are also "insuring" your opponents later street decisions. But hey, you extraced your EV earlier didn't you?

cheer · #7 05-25-2006, 01:58 PM

if 6th is a 10, any spade, king, ace, or 3 i might fold. anything else i call or if checked to I bet. free showdown would be optimal.

mscags · #8 05-25-2006, 02:45 PM

[censored] situation, but I would just call down unless you fill.

Michael Davis · #9 05-25-2006, 07:01 PM

Sixth street looks like an automatic raise if he doesn't improve. I can't see why everyone wants to just call down, and I don't see why this is a nasty situation for you since spades are deadish. He's overwhelmingly likely to have started with a pair of Ks given the third street action and given that he's not even going to have a (semi-dead) flush draw all that often.

-Michael

piranha · #10 05-26-2006, 04:40 PM

Is this situation always an automatic raise in stud? i.e. you make two pair on 5th and your opponent hasn't improved? I guess what I'm asking is what are the chances of your opponent making two pair by the river not counting folded upcards when he has an unpaired board on 5th and you assume he started with one bigger pair than you? I'm not taking the flush draw into account at all. Also, I assume you're betting sixth given no improvement to your opponent's hand and then checking the river unless your opponent is very passive in which case you're value betting?

-Tony