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#13
05-25-2006, 05:04 PM
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Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
What hands are we hoping to fold with a flop raise?
The Button specifically. What do we put UTG+1 on when he 3bets the flop? After he checks the turn, maybe some kind of draw that is +EV multiway on the flop but didnt improve or maybe AJ or KJ, something that is worried about the overcard falling. That's one reason I struggled with whether to take the free card. 
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#14
05-25-2006, 10:30 PM
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Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
[ QUOTE ]
What hands are we hoping to fold with a flop raise? What do we put UTG+1 on when he 3bets the flop? [/ QUOTE ] The flop raise is really not that difficult of a raise. Gain supreme Position, Overcard Outs, Gutshot, - I'm suprised at all the controversy. Now the turn fold we can talk about -- in short -- don't do it any more. Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
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#15
05-26-2006, 12:59 PM
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Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
Is the turn fold really that bad?
Given that we have two other callers that will probably see the river, I think a lot of our potential outs do no better than split the pot if they hit. I'm still trying to find that line that separates prudent from weak-tight. (I think I'm on the wrong side of it)
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#16
05-26-2006, 01:42 PM
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Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
[ QUOTE ]
well, i'm not raising this flop and i'll tell you why. when the 10,j,x (r) falls with 4 other players, my absolute best hope is my gutshot to the nuts. any ace or any queen is problematic in the sense that one of the others could easily make 2 pair (if they don't have it already) or even broadway. even if i were to backdoor 2 pair, all they would need is one stinking k to beat me...the flop will chill my action for sure.... [/ QUOTE ] Anybody agree with this? I think these thoughts have some merit. I still like the raise but he's got a point. This flop is a minefield and I ended up stepping on a few.
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#17
05-26-2006, 02:27 PM
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Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
Maybe this is a flaw in my game, but I just can't see raising the turn here as a option when you're against multiple opponents, at least one of whom must have you totally by the balls. You are drawing to a king (possibly for a split, and possibly one of which is counterfieted to a flush), and maybe to an ace if you're lucky and nobody already has 2 pair, a set, or a badly played AK. Can somebody justify this aggression to me?
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#18
05-26-2006, 02:34 PM
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Re: 2/4 AQo in a big multi way pot
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is a flaw in my game, but I just can't see raising the turn here as a option when you're against multiple opponents, at least one of whom must have you totally by the balls. You are drawing to a king (possibly for a split, and possibly one of which is counterfieted to a flush), and maybe to an ace if you're lucky and nobody already has 2 pair, a set, or a badly played AK. Can somebody justify this aggression to me? [/ QUOTE ] hey man, hero bet the turn and was raised. for very obvious(i think) reasons hero MUST bet that turn. hero did not raise the turn.
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