Deepish set on a bad board oop

[hit_the_set]

[ QUOTE ]
What amount would you 3bet? 3betting pot here commits me to the pot and i have to call if he pushes

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you really worried about getting it allin here? I dont think you are deep enough!

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
What amount would you 3bet? 3betting pot here commits me to the pot and i have to call if he pushes

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1500 - if he pushes over that representing a straight then you won't be committed because you won't have odds to fill.

[Dakine69]

Bluff,

Are we really folding top set to the utg pf raiser if he pushes? Maybe a leak for me but with pot equity and some hand ranges villian may push that we are ahead I call

[JMa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What amount would you 3bet? 3betting pot here commits me to the pot and i have to call if he pushes

[/ QUOTE ]


1500 - if he pushes over that representing a straight then you won't be committed because you won't have odds to fill.

[/ QUOTE ]

if we make it 1500 and he pushes we are getting about 6400-3250, and we have 34% equity versus JTs. Folding seems bad, considering he may have a combo draw some % of the time. Also, lets say we make it 1500 and folding to a push, arent we bluffing? I doubt he will check behind on the turn and river and we aint calling.

Basically I thought 3-betting on the flop here might scare away 888/777.

[BluffTHIS!]

Dak,

The point you make about villain being the utg raiser is valid somewhat, but since this is 6-max then JTs is in the range of a lot of players, and since he would know that for hero as well, then a pushover *should* equal a straight unless villain has AA/KK and puts hero on a combo hand.

Jma,

I would reraise that flop almost every time because I wouldn't want to let another nearby straight card fall which either made villain's hand or allowed him to bluff with a worse hand.

These situations where you have a set on a 3 straight board are some of the most difficult to play and are very dependent upon reads with deeper stacks IMO, although as this is online, the stacks aren't that deep.

[tyboy74]

I think how this hand should be played really depends on what hand you put the Villan on. From reading your post I would put the villan on either overcards or an overpair. With that said I think the correct play is to just call here. By calling you are not over-committing yourself to this pot. You also stand to lose less money if he did flop a stright. And most importantly you add deception to you hand. By just calling you can represent a wide variety of hands. You can be calling with a draw, pair, or set. Thus you have a higher chance of taking down a big pot if he does have hands like AK or AQ and a Ace or king come on the turn. Now if a scare card comes you can evaluate the situation base on what he villan do or how he reacts. For example if he did hit a stright and a diamond come on the turn who to say you cant bluff him off his hand? However if a blank fall on the turn you can push. I think many players will raise or go all in because they are scare of a bad beat. But there is no guarantee that even if you raise they wont call and out draw you. Can the result of this hand be postes please???

[MDMA]

As someone said, it would be criminal to not 3-bet here, and also criminal to fold to a push obviously. With top two pair or bottom set this would have been another deal and worth contemplating, but with topset this is never, ever a predicament.

[Lucky]

This is fine flop to get your money in. The only thing 'bad' about it is how it might affect your opponent, especially depending on turn card that comes.

So raise flop to 1500-2k, hope he reraises you all in with overpair to charge your draw or whatever.

[Parlay Slow]

JMa,

When evaluating the correct play, it's important to consider how a raise allows him to play HIS hand from a First Theory of Poker standpoint.

Is he likely to make a big mistake with:

88?
77?
98?
97?

While risky, if you smooth called and you were lucky to catch a blank turn like a black deuce, would he treat top two pair as the nuts?

[9cao]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't even think OP is defining his hand here by 3-beting at all; with these stacks he could be doing this with a lot of draws/combodraws with great FE.

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Well this depends 100% on how OP plays his big combo draws. Judging by some of his reponses I would speculate not too fast.

My point in defining your hand really is that in my opinion Villain is drawing to an average of less than 4 outs (77,88,TT+ and various draws) or flopped the nuts. Therefore, the 3-bet (pot size I assume) makes it very easy for Villain to drop all hands other than 77,88, or JT (unless Hero has set precedent with playing draws very fast).

So in my opinion the free card is not the issue. I was boiling it down to odds of Villain calling 3-bet (defining strength) versus odds that turn card does not kill action.

I still like 3-bet, call all-in.