I Hate Phil. (LC)

[vingte]

I was also playing PLO8 $25 today (I play PLO8 seldom these last week), and I saw this guy always raising preflop with a large range of hands.
Each time I saw a guy playing like this before, he finished to loose all his chips. But this guy does not : he seems to be very good playing agressively.

While searching on this forum, BadBeatPhil seems to be Phil153. I thought this guy was playing higher limits. Didn't he ?
I've only played something like 180 hands with him, and he was 44% VPIP and 18% PFR

[TheStation]

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Ground Zero will undoubtedly be the PartyPoker $25 tables.

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[PorkPieHat]

Niss, it's not that I don't get the point, it's that I feel the point is not necessarily valid in this case.

Yes, people will call your raise (at all levels, not just the $25s) with hands like Phil had here in an attempt to bust your AA. I do it all the time myself (usually with something better than this) if I am reasonably sure that the raiser has AA. You don't need to stack someone very often for it to be a profitable play. The fact that I called the raise gives the raiser absolutely no information about my hand, while I know 50% of his.

At anything below $200 you should be raising AAxx OOP for value, not for isolation, IMO. If you don't feel that AA79 is an exceptionally valuable hand OOP (and I don't) then a raise will not accomplish much of anything for you, other then give you an identified hand in bad position with a big target on your forehead.

Of course, if you can get it all in preflop then that's another story.

[Bruce_Wayne]

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not raising your weak aces pre-flop was a mistake.

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I didn't raise them PF precisely because they're weak and because I'll be in the worst position possible for the rest of the hand with a tricky player like Phil to act after me. If I don't hit the flop hard then I CF, however weak Aces cease to be weak when you flop the nut flush with them.

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I am guessing that even a retard like Dr. Phil does not call a pot-sized pre-flop raise with that garbage

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Then your guesswork is wrong.

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The fact that you got stacked with this hand is most likely the result of your failure to raise your hand pre-flop.

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No, the fact that I got stacked is God's twisted way of getting me back for taking his name in vain last week. That, and the fact that it's a 100-1 fluke.

In fact, if you had told me PF that I would flop the nut flush and Phil had Kx of the same suit, I would let him come into the hand for free.

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If I was trying to be a jerk, I would have suggested you post this hand in BBV.

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This isn't a bad beat post. It's a low content, humorously good natured ribbing post at Phil's expense.

[niss]

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Yes, people will call your raise (at all levels, not just the $25s) with hands like Phil had here in an attempt to bust your AA. I do it all the time myself (usually with something better than this) if I am reasonably sure that the raiser has AA. You don't need to stack someone very often for it to be a profitable play. The fact that I called the raise gives the raiser absolutely no information about my hand, while I know 50% of his.

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I do not understand how you do not see that this is a primary reason TO RAISE. You believe OP is telling someone he has A-A (although if you play PLO8 correctly, you raise pre-flop with a whole lot more than A-A hands), and yet someone with 3-5-10-Q -- who you are light years ahead of -- is going to call. If you are calling my pre-flop raise knowing I have A-A, and you have this holding, I guarantee you are losing money.

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If you don't feel that AA79 is an exceptionally valuable hand OOP (and I don't)

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Another reason to raise it.

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At anything below $200 you should be raising AAxx OOP for value, not for isolation

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I don't play this level, so I take your word for it, but this seems like a ridiculous concept.

[niss]

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Let that be a lesson to you. If you are going to play a pair of Aces with a 7 and a 9, even suited, you should throw in a large pre-flop raise to get rid of these random hands that can beat you, and to give you a better idea of what you may be up against.



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You don’t have to be a deep thinker to figure out why this is not some of your best advice.

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Don't let me dissuade any of you from playing your passive brand of PLO8 that I'm sure works so well. You can play like a little girl and hope a flop hits you, or you can take control of a hand (or a table) and take down pots that miss your opponents. The issue being discussed here is a whole lot bigger than the fact that, in this specific instance, Phil flopped a straight flush while Bruce flopped the A-high flush. It arises in this instance because Bruce might have avoided this circumstance with a raise pre-flop; but the issue is a much broader one. With all due respect, if you are not going to play hands like this aggressively before the flop, then you should not play them at all.

[PorkPieHat]

Niss, we are probably just misunderstanding each other. Here is what you said:

[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to play a pair of Aces with a 7 and a 9, even suited, you should throw in a large pre-flop raise to get rid of these random hands that can beat you, and to give you a better idea of what you may be up against.

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My response is that throwing in a large preflop raise will not "get rid of these random hands that can beat you" and will definitely not "give you a better idea of what you may be up against."

About the only thing you can somewhat safely assume when you have AAxx and I call your preflop raise is that I probably don't have AA as well, and there's a much slimmer chance that I have A2 than normal.

But you knew that without raising anyway.

BTW,

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1742408
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as ac 7s 9d - 3c 5h td qh
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 7s Ac 9d 217743 303491 196509 0 119281 63627 387 0.575
3c Td Qh 5h 142520 196509 303491 0 128941 33538 387 0.425

Add in the fact that I have knowledge of half your hand, and more importantly, position on you. and I'd say we were at least even, if not advantage = me.

[kurto]

I've played many a night at a table with Phil. Phil is able to play tight or slightly maniacish. I've seen him do fantastically well playing very laggish and I've seen him lose several buyins in a short amount of time.

I actually vary whether I will sit at a table with phil depending on the mood I'm in. If I want to play a lot of hands limping... then I avoid phil's tables. If I want to play high variance, all big pots, I'll sit at a Phil table.

And, I don't know that Phil would have folded his hand to a raise by someone he has position on.

On a related note: When Phil has his chat on, its usually amusing. There's a lot of cursing and smack talk at a Phil table. It can be good fun!

[januarymute]

niss i think this is a limp from the SB. because folding out most hands is still going to leave you in a bad spot on most flops, OOP with a built pot.

[niss]

Under the circumstances presented here, I can't see limping with this hand. I c/f on a low flop; and bang it on any other flop, expecting to take it down.

This is why you're having such a terrible May.