Buying My Gutshot Outs??

[wonkadaddy]

10/20 5-handed
SB is fairly passive.
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PREFLOP: UTG folds, CO limps, Button limps, SB raises, BB (Wonka) calls w/6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], CO calls, Button calls

FLOP: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB bets, Wonka raises...


(if the pot gets folded around to the SB who 3-bets i plan to cap and take a free card on the turn. if it gets folded around and the SB just calls i'll fire again on the turn.)

eh?

[flawless_victory]

no1 is folding any jack ever.

[kurosh]

Flop hit lots of people, no one is folding with any piece, you want people to come along with flush draw etc etc etc, bad raise.

[wonkadaddy]

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no1 is folding any jack ever.

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to 2 bets? why not?

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no1 is folding any jack ever.

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to 2 bets? why not?

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because they have a pair or 2 overs or they limped J4 and ppl who limp J4 dont fold it on T87 flops.
the only reason to raise flop is to try and take it down UI by pounding... flop is a little coordinated for that i think.

[Alobar]

To everyone saying the raise is bad because no one is folding, uhm, isnt that kinda a good thing given heros equity?

[WhiteShirt]

This semi-bluff has little chance of winnign the pot. Your best case is if you get hu against the sb and he checks then you fire. Even that deal isnt good, I dont see hiem folding on that turn. So you will be faced with a river and have 6 high and then you must check it down.

just call and hit your hand then win a big pot.

[Pog0]

Maybe a J folds on the turn, but you aren't semibluff raising on the turn in a field of 4 for fold equity.

Tough flop. I think both plays have their merits.

[wonkadaddy]

so really i'm just trying to knock out QJ, KJ, AJ, J8, J7 so that the 9's are freed up as outs.

and if a hand w/a ten (other than JT) comes along then i'm getting my odds on my flush so my raise doesn't hurt me anyway. if CO or button coldcalls and BUT 3 bets i'm definitely capping for a few reasons. (it's a 2nd effort to try to buy the 9's as outs if i'm facing a hand like JT, which i think will often work. and if i'm up against an overpair and a T w/out the J i'm gaining equity if he comes along since i'm drawing live to 12 outs. AND i think it earns me the free card on the turn, when i'm no longer making money w/a jam (if i was to begin with).

that was the plan at least, but i've never raised to try to buy outs to my bottom gutshot, which made the hand a bit different, and thus interesting

[Alobar]

I dont know why you are so concerned about buying 3 outs. If a raise is the right play, its for other reasons besides hopefully folding out a few combos that 2 people in the hand likely dont have, and often wont fold.