Flop nut flush draw

[mike2129]

Villan is TAG, 2 hands before he checked down AA overpair HU, when a 3 flush and possible straight came on the turn.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB :#A500AF(Villan)/ (6 max, 6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button ($291.50)
SB ($42)
BB :#A500AF(Villan)/ ($174)
UTG ($64)
Hero ($295.55)
CO ($97.59)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $2, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB :#A500AF(Villan)/ raises to $6</font>, Hero calls $6, CO calls $6, SB folds.

Flop: ($26) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villan bets $25</font>, Hero calls $25, CO calls $25.

Turn: ($101) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villan bets $70</font>, Hero calls $70, CO calls $71 (all-In).

River: ($312) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Villan is all-In [$71]
mike7586 calls [$71].

Final Pot: $454

Comments on all streets welcome.

Edit:Change name on the river to villan

[Fallen Hero]

Raise the flop or fold the turn. I raise the flop everytime.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

well, it depends on if you think villian fires two barrels. He came out betting the turn VERY strong considering he had two callers behind him. You maybe are getting odds to call the turn i guess if you assume villian pushes any river. It's a risky call, and your ace might not even be good. I fold the turn.

[FreakDaddy]

The action on the turn is screwed up. What happend on the river? Villlian still has money left? I don't know perhaps I'm reading this wrong.

Fold-preflop.
Flop is fine. I don't mind a call, even if I don't know someone else is coming. A push with someone left to act, is fairly risky imo. Once I have an overcall on the flop, I'm not calling the turn. There's not enough in villians stack to make up the implied odds if I hit since CO is si short. You're likely against a set and over pair. So you're outs aren't very clean.

[chadplusplus]

Well, I would probably fold this preflop unless the guys to your left are tight weakies, in which case I would raise and go for the steal. Open limping is just bad, especially in 6-max.

After his preflop raise, you gotta let your hand go. You may be dominated and the flush doesn't hit often enough to make it worth your investment. This would have played out differently had you raised preflop, but anyway.

Flop, you've got the flush draw and the wheel draw plus maybe a weak ace (~12 outs or 3.8:1 or so). And you're getting 2:1 pot odds, assuming the CO was going to fold (what the hell did he have?) To justify this call worth while, if you hit on the turn, you'll have to be able to get another $50 out of him or so with three of a suit on the board, which is probably doable considering the stack sizes.

But, better yet, can we win the hand right now? He raised from the BB then fired a continuation bet at an all low card flop. Does he always/usually continuation bet? You say he's a TAG, so probably. BUT HERE'S THE DEAL. You have position on the dude. How has he responded to people coming over top of him before? Has he been able to lay down hands? If you're going to play this draw, at least make it a semi bluff and RAISE. You limped preflop then called his raise. What does this usually mean to the other guy? Probably a pocket pair if he's paying attention. At least make him worry about a set (which may be better represented by a smooth call here and a raise on the turn, but much more risky). All this calling kills kittens.

The turn you gotta let it go, you no longer have actual or implied odds to justify that call (unless you're trying to represent a set, but the pot is huge at this point and you probably no longer have enough fold equity to pull off this bluff). (At least I don't think so, the converter gets a little screwed up.)

I think you got lucky against this guy's big pocket pair when you spiked your ace. To which much chat box berating ensued followed by: "But they were SOOOOTED"

[DirtDog]

Preflop, Im opening this pot for a raise 100% of the time. On the flop I raise it up to 70 to isolate the villain, and also to possibly get a free card on the turn. Add the possibility of taking down the pot immediately and I think that raising the flop is definately the right play. You have plenty of equity and shouldnt be worried about building a big pot.

As played I think the turn call is bad, and you should have given up on the hand when he didn't give you proper odds to continue with your big draw.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop or fold the turn. I raise the flop everytime.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
All this calling kills kittens.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol that should be stickied

[mike2129]

I didn't re-raise the flop because I though if the CO called and with the gutshot draw aswell, I was getting the odds if I could keep the pot small. I should have realised that CO was short stacked as this affected my implied odds. Whats the plan if villan calls or re-raises us on the flop?

(CO had Kh7h)

[chadplusplus]

[ QUOTE ]
Whats the plan if villan calls or re-raises us on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

He just calls and assuming he checks to us on the turn and assuming you pushed out the CO with your raise: I'm split about 50/50 on taking the free card and betting about 2/3 of the pot. This is one of those situations that is close so I use it to mix up my play. I know just checking totally defines your hand but betting out may not fold him either (~25% chance of hitting on the river + x% of him folding &gt;? 50%).

Re-Raise: Depends, you probably no longer have the odds (actual or implied) to call. Sometime you just have to fold. I know, it sucks, I hate folding too, especially with a good draw. But if the odds don't justify a call, then you're losing money.

Well, lets see... he starts with $174, so... $25 in the pot, he bets $25, (he now has $143) you raise $50 ($75 total), that puts $125 in the pot, and he pushes so you have to call $93 to win a $268 (3.1-ish:1). Meh, its close but totally sucks.