OOT help me decide what to study in Post Grad (law school)

[ski]

I've been considering law school.

The other night I talked with a lawayer at a local bar for awhile and he said a few things that scared me away from law school.

1. The only reason most lawyers say they love being lawyers is because of all the money they make
2. Lawyers have very little influence on the outcome of most trials because usually either something is legal or it isin't.
3. Once you get out of law school you pretty much have to work 40+ hour weeks.

I could probably get 165-168 or so on my LSAT.

How true are the things that he said? I really want a longterm job that is interesting and doesn't have to be strictly about money. I enjoy logic games and such a lot (I actually enjoyed taking the practice LSAT, and sometimes even enjoy poker.)

Please only respond if you feel qualified to.

[prohornblower]

As a lawyer, which I'm not, I definitely feel qualified to respond.

My response is: I'm tired of seeing these Law School threads. Go wave your e-penis somewhere else. Figure out what you want to do yourself, you e-penis waver.

[miajag]

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My response is: I'm tired of seeing these Law School threads. Go wave your e-penis somewhere else. Figure out what you want to do yourself, you e-penis waver.

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As a law student, I couldn't agree more.

[Mens Rea]

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I've been considering law school.

The other night I talked with a lawayer at a local bar for awhile and he said a few things that scared me away from law school.

1. The only reason most lawyers say they love being lawyers is because of all the money they make
2. Lawyers have very little influence on the outcome of most trials because usually either something is legal or it isin't.
3. Once you get out of law school you pretty much have to work 40+ hour weeks.

I could probably get 165-168 or so on my LSAT.

How true are the things that he said? I really want a longterm job that is interesting and doesn't have to be strictly about money. I enjoy logic games and such a lot (I actually enjoyed taking the practice LSAT, and sometimes even enjoy poker.)

Please only respond if you feel qualified to.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK - I'll try to give your questions an honest answer.

1. Untrue. Lawyer salaries vary widely depending on the job, practice area, and seniority level. First year grads now make anywhere from $145k on the high end in big markets (LA, NY) and as low as $40k (generally DAs). I know many unhappy lawyers making $200k+ and some who are happy as hell making $50k.

2. Untrue. This depends entirely on your practice area. In some areas, cases rarely ever even go to trial. Some lawyers don't even deal with litigation at all (business lawyers doing entirely transactional work.) On the other hand, some, like plaintiffs' lawyers in areas like subrogation go to trial frequently. You can decide to go into an area where litigation is a common thing. The statement above is rediculous - issues that are as black and white as that don't usually require lawyers unless it is criminal defense. Even then, if you're creative and good at your job, there will always be issues to raise.

3. True. Depending on whether you can manage to get (or even want) a big firm job, you'll have to work longer hours. Most bigger firms require new associates to bill between 1600 and 2000 hours per year. To get this done, you'll probably have to put in a 60 hour week. One thing you should know very early on is that in any field, professionals do not work 9-5. 40 hour weeks in any high-paying professional fields are a thing of the past. This is true in all businesses (investment banking, medicine, engineering). If you plan on going to grad school for a professional degree that you plan to use, you would be best to accept this now.

Before you take your bar buddy's word for it, find out what kind of work he does and see if it is something that you might find yourself interested in, and then find out why he hates it so much.

Finally, I wouldn't take 165-168 for granted on the LSAT, and if your GPA isn't up to par, it doesn't matter anyway. Then again, unless you have a specific school in mind already, it might not really matter at all.

Good luck.

[Gunny Highway]

If I had it all to do over, I'd become a tax lawyer. A noble occupation, which is more than I can say for most lawyers.

[neuroman]

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3. Once you get out of law school you pretty much have to work 60+ hour weeks.

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fyp

There's a book called Law School Confidential that you might find interesting to read.

[SackUp]

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3. Once you get out of law school you pretty much have to work 60+ hour weeks.

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fyp

There's a book called Law School Confidential that you might find interesting to read.

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I found this book very helpful.

BTW - I'm graduating from law school in 1 week.

[sushijerk]

Why are you considering law school? Is it because you have a geniune interest in law? Is it because of the money/lifestyle that you've heard about? Is it because you don't like your undergrad major?

1) This depends. I've talked to those who have a passion for law. I've talked to those who who think working at a firm is the most soul crushing experience ever.

2) Did you really talk to a lawyer about this? This is a terrible blanket statement to make, especially since types of law are so varied.

3) What were your assumptions about a lawyer's workload? Show up at a trial, give 2 hour speech, play golf with the DA? The hours are usually brutal, especially for newer recruits.

You sound like you know absolutely nothing about being a lawyer aside from it being a potentially cool job. I will tell you right now that it is rough, and very few people who do it will categorize thier job as INTERESTING. Firms are not hiring you do logic games. 95% percent of the people who apply to law school are in it for the prestige/financial rewards.

[Tedesco Rides]

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1. The only reason most lawyers say they love being lawyers is because of all the money they make

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Most lawyers don't make that much money. How much you make when you get out is heavily dependent on the school you go to- if you don't go to a top 14, it's gonna be much much harder (if not near impossible) to get one of those $100k+ jobs. The downside is relatively big. I have a friend who graduated last year from Rutgers-Camden last year, worked at Best Buy for months afterward and finally a couple months ago landed a gig as a temp attorney. Nasty.

Unless you really really like law already and want to be a lawyer, don't go to law school. It'll be a big mistake. It was for me, and it was for many of my friends as well. I graduate Sunday, at least it's all over.

Remember what you're giving up as well, think of it like this- say you are average guy that got into a top 14 (which is easier than you think if you have a good GPA and you practice some LSAT.) Say you get a little financial aid, tuition and costs are still $30k / year. You might get a decent firm job after 1L year, it's kinda 50/50, so we'll say on avg you make $10k in summer 1 (you might make $30, you might make $0, depends on you and depends on the state of the market, I say 10k instead of 15 bc of taxes and living expenses.) Summer 2 you will get a summer job and make $2400 a week or so in a big market, after taxes and living expenses, hell I dunno, say you take home $22k.

So it cost you $90k, but you earned $32k, so you're in the hole $58k. Now factor in the opportunity cost of 3 years of work you missed- at $40k / year take-home pay you got dinged $120k.

So after law school your total net worth is $178k lower than it would have been had you not gone. But you can get a job making more when you get out- BUT keep in mind that most people at those big firms don't last more than a few years before they either quit bc the lifestyle sucks ass or they are asked to leave (most big firms are very bottom-heavy and it's up or out.)

And if you are at a big firm, I'd say #3 should be "60 hr+ weeks." I can't think of any firms that have 1600 as such a low target, that's not the big firm "rape your life" norm. I have one friend going to a firm (WSGR) where the unspoken minimum is 2400 billable hours. Not too uncommon. I worked at a firm with a 2000 hour target that considered that soft and easy. [censored] that!

And if you aren't familiar with what a billable hour is, check this out. I think it's a little over the top, but it's close:
http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html...o-billable.htm

[jackblack73]

I'll just say this...ask as many lawyers as you can, "Knowing what you know now, would you do it over again?" Or occassionally you'll even see an online poll asking the same question. Me...I'd go to B-school.