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#11
05-15-2006, 07:04 PM
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Re: drawing to some kind of flush
Fold the turn. U get 5:1 in imediate odds which looks enough but there is a very high chance u are drawing dead here. Also CO may 3-bet cutting down ur odds further. U don't have any implied odds here cause u won't be able to push this on the river and no one will bet it for u if they don't have u beaten. All in all an easy fold.
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#12
05-15-2006, 07:18 PM
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Re: drawing to some kind of flush
Fold preflop.
Fold turn. Fold river. Preflop; I don't like playing KJ versus two unknown EP limpers. If you know they are loose, fine to play KJ; but i would like a raise in that case. Turn; if your draw is good, it would be ok. to call. The action suggests that it is very possible that you are drawing dead to a higher flush, or a full house. River; Your beat, simple. Someone has a boat, a A high flush or even a straight flush...
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#13
05-15-2006, 07:24 PM
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Re: drawing to some kind of flush
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop... Preflop; I don't like playing KJ versus two unknown EP limpers. If you know they are loose, fine to play KJ; but i would like a raise in that case. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Why do you worry about playing KJ? You seem to be implying that AK, AJ, and KQ make up a bulk of EP's limping hands.
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#14
05-15-2006, 08:04 PM
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Re: drawing to some kind of flush
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Fold preflop... Preflop; I don't like playing KJ versus two unknown EP limpers. If you know they are loose, fine to play KJ; but i would like a raise in that case. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Why do you worry about playing KJ? You seem to be implying that AK, AJ, and KQ make up a bulk of EP's limping hands. [/ QUOTE ] No, but with KJ domination is always a big problem. When I'm going to play these marginal (close to zero EV) hands in a marginal position I want to have reads of my opponents. Playing KJo in MP3 with two limpers from EP (indicating two above average hands) without reads isn't a very good spot, certainly when you're not a postflop expert. I'm sure the hand could be played slightly +ev, but I think a fold preflop in this situation is the best advice for the poster.
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#15
05-15-2006, 08:13 PM
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Re: drawing to some kind of flush
dont be a pussy kj is a good hand.
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#16
05-15-2006, 08:49 PM
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Re: drawing to some kind of flush
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Fold preflop... Preflop; I don't like playing KJ versus two unknown EP limpers. If you know they are loose, fine to play KJ; but i would like a raise in that case. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Why do you worry about playing KJ? You seem to be implying that AK, AJ, and KQ make up a bulk of EP's limping hands. [/ QUOTE ] No, but with KJ domination is always a big problem. When I'm going to play these marginal (close to zero EV) hands in a marginal position I want to have reads of my opponents. Playing KJo in MP3 with two limpers from EP (indicating two above average hands) without reads isn't a very good spot, certainly when you're not a postflop expert. [/ QUOTE ] Big problem? Let's say villains' hand range is A7+, K9+, QT+, JT+, 77+. Of these 272 hands (20.5% of all hands)... How many dominate KJ? AK, AJ, KQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ = 72 hands How many of these does KJ dominate? KT, K9, QJ, JT = 64 hands How many of these does KJ have a good hand against? AT, A9, A8, A7, QT, TT, 99, 88, 77 = 104 hands What hands remain? AQ, KJ = 32 hands I domination is only a perceived problem as hero is in trouble only 33% of the time given a somewhat conservative EP limping standard. If you throw in more suited aces, suited kings, suited connectors, and pocket pairs, you'll see hero's hand is looking better and better. KJ in position is a solid hand.
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#17
05-15-2006, 09:24 PM
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Re: drawing to some kind of flush
I'm probably given the villains to much credit. I wouldn't include hands like A7o, K9o etc in the range, unless I have a read they are loose.
I also consider that a decent player can easily fold a hand that is beaten by KJ on most flops, but that KJ can't fold op a K or J flop when behind. But perhaps i shouldn't assume that a unknow player is decent :P
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#18
05-16-2006, 12:03 AM
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Re: drawing to some kind of flush
I fold the turn. Since you called though, that's the worst diamond possible. There's only 5 flush cards out there that you can beat, and UTG+2 clearly doesn't care that the flush hit. I don't think that I'd fold the river but it's close. You are not closing the action it looks like you'll be getting ~23:3 on your call. Pray CO has just the Qd and the other guy has some slowplayed straight?
Edit: had the two villians mixed up.
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