Finishing high in mtt's: the difficulty of it

flapgreen · #1 01-09-2006, 05:51 PM

As I used to be mainly a cash game player, I've recently caught the tournament bug and have really enjoyed playing them lately. Basically, I'd like to discuss the thought process of some of the experienced veterans around here have when entering mtt's. Not just strategy but what your mindset is also, over the long haul and each individual tournament.

Last night, I played in the Stars $10+1 and finished 10/1700. That's the best I've finised in a mtt so far. I was the big cl with about 25 left to go but went card dead and eventually got all in with 1010 that lost to AQ.

In last night's tournament, I started fairly slow but the deck hit me upside the head during the middle stages and I built my stack up pretty well. I didn't deliver one bad beat I can remember but I also won almost all of the races I was in until the last one. I was playing good poker but was also catching some phenomenal cards too. I felt like I was going to win the thing at one point but just went card dead toward the end. I'd like to hear some others opinions on these types of circumstances. What percentage of big tournaments that you play do you finish high in? It seems that even if you play almost perfect poker you still would very rarely make it to a FT. The combination of enough great cards and winning numerous races to put you at the final table would appear to be very infrequent. I'm sure that's why most pro's make a living at cash games. There's just something to winning a big one and hitting that big payday though that's very intriguing. Thoughts? Feel free to add anything to this you feel is relevant.

flapgreen · #2 01-10-2006, 01:53 PM

Anyone?

THEOSU · #3 01-10-2006, 02:14 PM

Not sure what you're asking for here. You basically said:

MTTs have high variance. Variance sucks when it's down, but variance is effin sweet when you win a big one. You have to get lucky to place high not only in potentially drawing out but also having favorites hold.

Pretty hard to argue with any of that.

bestcellar · #4 01-10-2006, 02:27 PM

I had a brutal run of 2/40 cashes for something like -$3000 until I scored big in the $215 this past weekend for $5k. Last summer I had a week where in 7 days I made 7 final tables and cashed for like $6k in a week. Yeah, variance in these things is HUGE.

But I like surfing quite a bit [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

flapgreen · #5 01-10-2006, 04:24 PM

Sorry. I guess my post is a little too broad but I wasn't really centering on anything specific. I just wanted to hear about some general experiences veteran mtt players have had that really assisted them in becoming successful, especially those who've made the transition from ring games. Not really strategy because I know there's already plenty of that out there but general things you've learned that have helped you along the way.

Mi_T_Sharp · #6 01-10-2006, 04:41 PM

That's sort of the nature of the beast. You just have to have the right mindset in order to deal with the variance involved. Instead of looking at a bad beat as being an unlucky break that screwed you out of the tourney, you should look at it as you just got all your money into the pot and some donk called off his stack as a significant underdog to you. Hopefully that will keep happening in the future. That's all that matters. If you keep putting yourself in those types of situations, you will win (or at least do well) eventually. Remember that sometimes you are also going to royally suck out against someone, too. When that happens, just think of it as payback for all your bad beats.

In other words, don't start playing MTTs with the mindset that you can't win UNLESS you get lucky, or that even if you play perfectly you will most likely lose. That will not lead to much success IMO. Believe in your game, and think of it more like, "If I keep playing like this, I am going to win one of these things pretty soon." In addition, I think that coming to grips with the fact that you can easily bust out of any MTT helps you to play with less fear, which is very important. Remember that there are always other MTTs in the future.

I don't know if I qualify as one of the "experienced veterans," but that is my 2 cents.

flapgreen · #7 01-10-2006, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That's sort of the nature of the beast. You just have to have the right mindset in order to deal with the variance involved. Instead of looking at a bad beat as being an unlucky break that screwed you out of the tourney, you should look at it as you just got all your money into the pot and some donk called off his stack as a significant underdog to you. Hopefully that will keep happening in the future. That's all that matters. If you keep putting yourself in those types of situations, you will win (or at least do well) eventually. Remember that sometimes you are also going to royally suck out against someone, too. When that happens, just think of it as payback for all your bad beats.

In other words, don't start playing MTTs with the mindset that you can't win UNLESS you get lucky, or that even if you play perfectly you will most likely lose. That will not lead to much success IMO. Believe in your game, and think of it more like, "If I keep playing like this, I am going to win one of these things pretty soon."

I don't know if I qualify as one of the "experienced veterans," but that is my 2 cents.

[/ QUOTE ]No. That's great stuff Sharp. By experienced veteran, I meant compared to myself. I've just scratched the surface in mtt play. I've been studying mtts for a while by sweating players I know and reading all the major books out there including both harrington books and TOP. I've just recently began to take on the mtt monster though.

bestcellar · #8 01-10-2006, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That's sort of the nature of the beast. You just have to have the right mindset in order to deal with the variance involved. Instead of looking at a bad beat as being an unlucky break that screwed you out of the tourney, you should look at it as you just got all your money into the pot and some donk called off his stack as a significant underdog to you. Hopefully that will keep happening in the future. That's all that matters. If you keep putting yourself in those types of situations, you will win (or at least do well) eventually. Remember that sometimes you are also going to royally suck out against someone, too. When that happens, just think of it as payback for all your bad beats.

In other words, don't start playing MTTs with the mindset that you can't win UNLESS you get lucky, or that even if you play perfectly you will most likely lose. That will not lead to much success IMO. Believe in your game, and think of it more like, "If I keep playing like this, I am going to win one of these things pretty soon." In addition, I think that coming to grips with the fact that you can easily bust out of any MTT helps you to play with less fear, which is very important. Remember that there are always other MTTs in the future.

I don't know if I qualify as one of the "experienced veterans," but that is my 2 cents.

[/ QUOTE ]

great stuff. that is EXACTLY what I was telling myself the last four months while I was catching the wrong end...just keep playing solid and finally you'll place high, and after a long drought I did. I never once really lost confidence in my game, although there were a few tourneys where I didn't play my best. Those things happen though. The best advice I could give an MTTer is

1) don't let it go to your head (big cash)
2) don't let it go to your head (long losing streak)

Mi_T_Sharp · #9 01-10-2006, 06:51 PM

I'm glad you guys liked it. Keeping a positive mindset is truly a cheesy but important secret to being successful at almost anything. And remember....

You're good enough...
You're smart enough....
And doggonit, people like you!

Congrats on the 500,000 gauranteed performance, btw....

bestcellar · #10 01-10-2006, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm glad you guys liked it. Keeping a positive mindset is truly a cheesy but important secret to being successful at almost anything. And remember....

You're good enough...
You're smart enough....
And doggonit, people like you!

Congrats on the 500,000 gauranteed performance, btw....

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks, man! If I'd only won that last hand I might've been able to quit my job yesterday [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

well, not really, but you gotta say it