Regression... Not making smart laydowns despite read.

thirteen · #1 05-03-2006, 10:05 AM

I've made a regression as a poker player. I'm overvaluing TP and I'm paying off hands I have no business paying off.

I made an atrocious call yesterday against a fishy, predictable opponent. One of those players that you know is well below your skill level. Total fish, yet when he 'told' me he had my TPTK beat (I had a pretty good read on him), I talked myself into calling and of course lost. I gave him all his money back making the very mistake he made to allow me to take it from him.

I'm finding that I'm doing this a lot lately, my win-rate has plummeted. Its not variance, it's me donking it up.

It's like I've regressed... I'm like the newbie who comes down with a case of 'he's bluffing' syndrome. I make a good read but pay off anyway. It's like I need to see if my read is correct, so I call. This is just TERRIBLE.

I can't think of a single good laydown I've made in the last couple weeks. I find that I outplay my opponents to build a stack and then literally give it all back calling a big bet with a marginal hand when I know I'm behind.

I don't know how I've managed to regress in this aspect but I have. My reads have been sharp but my common sense has been dulled.

Anyone have any sage advice, aside from folding preflop [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

cambraceres · #2 05-03-2006, 10:07 AM

What game are you playing? With HE, folding preflop sounds like some good advice for you. Try not to think of every other player as a fish too, alot of them are you.

thirteen · #3 05-03-2006, 10:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What game are you playing? With HE, folding preflop sounds like some good advice for you. Try not to think of every other player as a fish too, alot of them are you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm by no means a superstar. Playing NL 50 right now. Win-rate was pretty consistent over 10k hands.

Seems like my game has gone to [censored]. I play a wide variety of poker(7 stud, omaha, limit HE). NL has always been my strong game though.

You're right. I shouldn't call anyone a fish if I'm going to play like one.

cambraceres · #4 05-03-2006, 10:19 AM

I had to take a little break from poker after some of the what I term intangibles got away from me. I play almost exclusively live though, and after my break I was strong again, making better decisions, I even lost the hint of burned out feeling. Maybe you should give it a go. At NL 50 you will do well with ABC really.

Cambraceres

Ken Egervari · #5 05-03-2006, 10:19 AM

I know what you mean. I think of the biggest things i've cleaned up is not getting married to multiway pots with TPGK. I will raise it the size of the pot to take it down. If anyone calls, I'm done with the hand. I'm not going to fire anymore. Yes, the callers who will bet are probably all betting on draws, but the draws find a way to beat you most of the time. It's just not worth it. It's like your gambling for the right cards to come up, and with so many players, they never do. It's just a way behind situation.

I remember many times I put my opponents on weak flush draws but they were calling pot-sized bets, only to find they had 2 pair. Then when I folded the TPTK, I saw they only had a flush or a gut-shot. It's just entirely random. I don't really care anymore about these hands. It's been more profitable to fire and go away then to stick with them and risk your stack on them.

Also I play my position well in these situations. If lots of people are in the pot and I'm UTG... and I see a flush or straight draw and I have TPTK, I don't even bother because I know at least 1 and probably 2 or 3 will call my pot-sized bet anyway.

I tend to fire at the pot depending on my opponents. if they are tight and will probably fold given they don't have anything, then I fire. But if it's a bunch of loose players who don't understand pot odds, I just check it. The odd time I actually make a big hand, the other times the flush completes or the straight completes by the turn or river anyway and I know I would have lost a truck-load.

Are these the hands you're talking about?

thirteen · #6 05-03-2006, 10:28 AM

Pretty much just talking myself into calling situations that used to be an standard fold.

chicagoY · #7 05-03-2006, 10:35 AM

Like the classic KJ conundrum. Do you really want to go to war with paired Kings Jack kicker. Just say no! (if your whole stack becomes risked).

cbloom · #8 05-03-2006, 11:22 AM

thirteen, sounds just like boredom + fatigue. Take a break, get some exercise, come back in a few days when you really *want* to play and focus.

thirteen · #9 05-03-2006, 12:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
thirteen, sounds just like boredom + fatigue. Take a break, get some exercise, come back in a few days when you really *want* to play and focus.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right. I think i'm forcing things because of boredom + fatigue. I've been playing a lot of hours lately. More than I usually do.

ChipStorm · #10 05-03-2006, 01:18 PM

Sage words of advice: You're doing what comes naturally, and as Schoonmaker says in Psychology of Poker, to do what comes naturally in hold'em loses money. You've just shut down your brain and your discipline. You know what you're doing wrong. But human nature says call, on hope.

Making the correct play, the laydown, is not a natural habit, but it is a habit, that can be learned with discipline and practice. So, also as Schoonmaker suggests, verbalize your thinking on every hand, tell yourself why you're doing what you're doing, get back in the habit, and you'll make the laydown.

And fold preflop.