Should PokerStars limit third party databases?

[CardSharpCook]

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alternatively CSC could STFU.

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Well, we all know that isn't likely....

Part of the problem with new posters is that they often say things that merely parrot others, or write out their opinion in a thread that contains a poll... which gives that opinion an option. The other problem is that might also make a blanket statement like, "The way I see it the use of PT and HUD is worse than this DB." and then do nothing to back-up that argument.

Thanks for making your 12th post in a year to let us all know what you think. No really, thanks!!

[KneeCo]

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The way I see it the use of PT and HUD is worse than this DB.

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Why do people keep saying this? (That's me being polite, because what I should really be saying is what the [censored] is your point?)
You have an issue with the use of PT and HUD, great, petition Stars and other sites through the appropriate channels to ban them, it's irrelevant to this debate.

[sirio11]

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wow, nice post, MBE. Great analogy.

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Even I like from time to time to see the stats in thepokerdb and other sites just for the fun of it. I think MBE is dead on.

Great analogy.

[N 82 50 24]

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Isn't this exactly what Lee purports to prevent?

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I don't think Lee has tried to prevent it yet.

[aaronbeen]

I still stand by my belief that all this information, aggregated or not should be public. Tournament poker, unlike shopping at the grocery store, is something people participate in uniquely in the public eye. Almost everyone who plays wants to win and have his or her win be viewed by others. In any case and as I stated before, your screen name gives you plenty of anonymity. If the grocery store provided a list of made up names along with real purchasing information no one would object. “Today we sold 7 gallons of milk: 2 to JaneDoe44, 1 to JohnSmith88, and 4 to TheMilkGuy102"

In any case I think the real issue here for many of you is the old mentality of not scaring away the fish. The belief has always been that anything that makes a fish aware of his results or even the nature of poker skill is something to be avoided. In general I tend to agree with this but you have to understand that today’s online tournament fish has somewhat of a different mentality than the tourists who have been sitting down in b&m casinos for years.

A lot of tournament players read poker web sites such as pocket fives, two plus two, and other online communities. Because of these communities and because of the public nature of tournament results these players are aware that there are big winners and they are aware of who they are. They may realize their own results are not good but they want to improve.

I know there are many players who view their db entry not as a weapon to be used to get reads on them, but as a record of their accomplishments. I’ve seen forum posts to the effect of “hurry up Nat add the $5 tournament I final tabled [so anyone in the world can see exactly how good I am].” I suspect there are even players who see their results and decide to play more in order to make their db entry look better, either because they realize it’s a small sample size or because they believe with enough time and effort they will become as good as the players they see winning frequently.* As long as people are optimists ranking systems will encourage them to play. I think tournament poker being viewed as a skill is good for us- everyone views himself as a smart person and it keeps them coming back to get it another shot. (Anyway, most players that try to work on their game end up posting bad beats or getting mediocre advice which they often disregard.) It’s also good for the house- Pokerstars has the TLB primarily because it causes people to join more tournaments and give them more money.


*My pokerdb entry currently shows me as a significant loser on pokerstars(30+ buyin downswing in the nightly 150) but I continue playing (mainly that tournament and also the 200 on sundays and the occasional rebuy) in part because I can see that my peers are making money in that tournament and I believe I can be a long term winner. Meanwhile exitonly and the rest of you that have done well in that tournament can enjoy my lost $5000.

[bloomer]

PokerDb and Tournament Reporter is the reason why I Play at Poker stars tourneis, I love the Idea of getting info. If poker stars decides to stop this I will stop playing there. And I play 8 hours a day 40 hours a week there.

[suckbot]

Personally, I like the added info. Does a loser according to these sites on MTTs mean they won't take me down? nope. Does it mean I may adjust my play to my expectation of their ability, maybe.

Does my profitable status mean I lose more if someone looks me up? Lose an edge? I don't think so. If anything MAYBE it makes the fish less likely to call my bluffs. (if I delude myself to think that)

[DVaut1]

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PokerDb and Tournament Reporter is the reason why I Play at Poker stars tourneis, I love the Idea of getting info. If poker stars decides to stop this I will stop playing there. And I play 8 hours a day 40 hours a week there.

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I didn't even know what poker was until pokerdb! I mean, I played a little bit, but seriously, I never even enjoyed the [censored] game until I got a chance to view stats! Once pokerdb opened, however, I quit my full time job immediately and became a PokerStars pro, simply because of the joy that looking up other people's stats brings to me! It's not for the money, or the competition...it's for the stats, baby. I just love the idea of getting info. Winning the guaranteed million for a few hundred thousand dollars is a cheap thrill compared to the exhilarating feeling I get when I find out one of my opponents cashed for $15 in a $2 NLHE tournament on January 4th of this year. Truly heaven on Earth.

Lee, I will quit playing on PokerStars...nay, I will give up poker altogether...nay, I will kill myself after a long, homicidal rampage if you decide to stop pokerdb. Think about it.

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Seriously, this thread is ridiculous. Guy claims to play FULL TIME at PokerStars SOLELY because of pokerdb and Tournament Reporter -- because he "loves the idea of getting info". Also, the sky is red, and hamburgers eat people.

[granvillea]

Why would you? Will it stop morons who read about - recognize or look up on the TLB players and blather on about them in chat from doing so? Will it limit the idiots that love to go on and on about how much they know about this or that player or who spend the entire time they survive (and often an hour after they are knocked out "correcting" and "complaining" about everyone else's "bad play" that took their chips because the only thing they sort of understand is "quality" starting hands and they know nothing about pot odds, M, Short Stack or Big Stack Play - Just that you're not supposed to call their naked bluff or bust their pocket pairs when they try to slow play them until somebody gets a hand. And if you do beat them the site is obviously "cheating them" or you're in "collusion" or you must KNOW what cards are coming. Or you're just a lucky donkey. Because otherwise their perfect play could not have been beat.

Eliminating a tool that helps players recognize others who
might know how to play will not fix bad behavior or classless people who don't know how to behave in public. And quite frankly as long as they continue to give me their chips I can ignore them. I like knowing a little about the experience level of the players I'm at a table with. Its not a lot of edge but it is useful and interesting and the info is available to anyone that signs up with the site for no charge, so where's the harm.

[jackaaron]

On the one hand, I want thepokerdb to go away...however, it has forced me to become a better player, and I've made much more money because I feel accoutable now.

I suppose if you don't like fish to either:
1. Make themselves better
2. Take their money to another site

...you would tell LJ to inhibit 3rd parties from getting the information they collect.

I suppose I offer a warped perspective in that I am a fish who is thankful (thankful in the way that you would thank your dad years later for whipping your ass in the front yard for doing something really stupid) that thepokerdb forced me to make some type of change.