Is this an odd bet with AQo late in the money?

JC_Saves · #1 01-09-2006, 01:48 PM

This was a 10+1 deep stack, 1039 entered down to 45.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 (t85124)
CO (t49846)
Button (t85993)
SB (t39985)
BB (t84499)
UTG (t131610)
Hero (t64128)
MP1 (t218838)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t9000, 1 fold, MP2 raises to t60000, 4 folds, Hero ?

Is this a very odd bet to make in this situation? It seems to me that people with pairs and what not or steal attempts were betting 3BB.

it seems that when someone that was not short stacked made a huge bet or all in reraise it was almost always something like AK or AQ. A little before this there was a 6BB raise from BB and table CL reraised all in for 194k and flipped up AKo and lost to JJ.

Has it been others experience that huge reraises are generally drawing hands?

I reraised all in thinking that this reraise was completely silly and probably not AA, KK, QQ.

The villian here had AQo. Was this just a ridiculous move with his stack at this stage of the tournament with this hand? He had not made any moves, and I had only played premium hands recently, pretty rocky. Although earlier when I was down to 22k I went all in a lot but usually without a showdown, Hands that I did show were premium though.

I don't know why someone would reraise this amount when he could have called and seen what the flop was.

Thoughts?

Dave D · #2 01-09-2006, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This was a 10+1 deep stack, 1039 entered down to 45.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 (t85124)
CO (t49846)
Button (t85993)
SB (t39985)
BB (t84499)
UTG (t131610)
Hero (t64128)
MP1 (t218838)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t9000, 1 fold, MP2 raises to t60000, 4 folds, Hero ?

Is this a very odd bet to make in this situation? It seems to me that people with pairs and what not or steal attempts were betting 3BB.

it seems that when someone that was not short stacked made a huge bet or all in reraise it was almost always something like AK or AQ. A little before this there was a 6BB raise from BB and table CL reraised all in for 194k and flipped up AKo and lost to JJ.

Has it been others experience that huge reraises are generally drawing hands?

I reraised all in thinking that this reraise was completely silly and probably not AA, KK, QQ.

The villian here had AQo. Was this just a ridiculous move with his stack at this stage of the tournament with this hand? He had not made any moves, and I had only played premium hands recently, pretty rocky. Although earlier when I was down to 22k I went all in a lot but usually without a showdown, Hands that I did show were premium though.

I don't know why someone would reraise this amount when he could have called and seen what the flop was.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would push here too. You're only afraid of 3 hands. I'm not exactly sure if I understand your question right, but the answer your looking for depends on the table. In this case I would have made it 20k to go w/ AQ, or maybe just called depending on if the table had been playing really tight and I was confident it would be HU w/ the OR.

He probably made the raise thinking "I can't raise the OR ~1/3 of my stack and then fold the flop". Which is why I'd really have to let my table read determine what I did (I'd even consider folding it if I respect the OR). He could also be trying to steal from you, and hoping that you fold and he increases his stack significantly. His move really isn't that bad at all. I think I'd probably consider pushing AK here (again, table read dependent), so pushing AQ is just basically hoping the OR folds more than AK.

FGators · #3 01-09-2006, 02:16 PM

It's a large raise but it's a Kill Phil type mentality. He didn't want to play the hand postflop and it left you scratching your head and put you to a semi-tough tournament decision.

seke2 · #4 01-09-2006, 02:22 PM

He wants to make a raise big enough that it absolutely commits you. He probably could have gotten off a little smaller than this. He was clearly willing to go the felt with his hand. AQ is a coinflip against most hands that make a 3xBB raise to open a flop.

He put the tough decision on you. His play is definitely not out of line to me. It's interesting, a little goofy, and possibly designed to throw you off a bit. Seems like that's what happened.

A lot of hands that open raise 3xBB preflop, even from a rocky player, will fold when put to a decision for all their chips.

JC_Saves · #5 01-09-2006, 03:20 PM

Has it been anyone else's observation that the whaky big over reraises more often than not are drawing hands and not a big pair?

I mean, this was a totaly easy push for me because I thought 1) that was just a stupid raise with any hand that would have me beat. 2) it is very late in this tourney, 6hours I think, and the jump in payout is not that great until 20 or 30 more positions, so again I have to make the push here. 3)I have to call in this situation given if I win I am in very decent position to final table, in my opinion given how I was playing. yes, maby optimistic, but average table chip stacks would have been around 200k and I would not have been too far from that.

The purpose for this thread was more to find out observations on what raises and reraises really mean late in tourneys when you are in the money solidly and going for the bigger payouts. I have not played enough MTT's where there are huge stacks and huge blinds to really have a knowledge base.

xDJCMx · #6 01-09-2006, 06:48 PM

I have seen this kind of strange bet live many times before...which is usually accompanied with the phrase "I'll put *you* all in".

Of course...it isn't always the case, but I find this is often indicitive of a semi-strong drawing hand that the raiser does not wish to play post flop. Villain made a bet big just big enough (well, a little bigger) to put you all in.

My theory is that they are scared of their halfway holdings, but still want to appear strong w/o having to actually do battle. Something subconsious tells them that putting the question to you is somehow stronger than simply going all in themselves (which is obviously easier). So the pot committing bet short of an all in bet is an attempt at pyschological warfare.

YMMV.