OT: (slightly) Who loses all the money?

[yellowjack]

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I have been playing (micro stakes) SNG/STT now for a month or so, and can't help but notice the following:

.) Everyone claims to be a winning player
.) Most sites collect min 10% fee (ex: 1$ +10c)- 10% drain on the "system"
.) Lots of players play very loose + Calling Stations...

So who and where are all the losers?
(I can't see how rakebacks and freerolls make a huge difference in the 10% drain)

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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I've played quite a few $1.75 ($1.50+ .25) 2- table Turbos and my ROI is probably close to 100%. There was a point where my average profit on them was $2 per. I'm definitely not a loser in them. They allowed me to turn $30 into $160 in about 2 weeks (part-time) and I started taking shots at the $6.50s. Now I straddle the $6.50s (1 and 2- tables) with a $16 or so.

Flight_Risk

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Give me my 30 seconds back.

[AMT]

putting simply what has been plucked from everyones replies:

a) most people lose and either lie or you dont hear from them (think about how many players there are in the world vs how many you "know".

b) gambling, including poker, is, by the majority of people (and dont think because everyone on this forum is serious about poker that its not the majority, because the sample size of "people" is quite large), is done freely and with intent of enjoyment, not profit. the concept of hitting big and cashing out big is what keeps them going but they dont take the necessary steps to become "winning players", they just take shots at ALL sorts of games because the idea of winning big is possible, put simply.

[bodhibabe]

I chatted once with a guy who does addiction counselling, and what he had to say about problem gamblers was fascinating and rather scary. He said normal folks go to a casino or online with the goals of having a good time and/or winning. Problem gamblers, in contrast, have goals of having a bad time and losing. They are closet masochists who need to validate their poor opinion of themselves by losing. All of it. Always. They'll play, even through massive upswings, until it is all gone. The motivation is to concretize in a tangible way their nebulous self-loathing and psychic pain. Sort of like cutters.

[ChoicestHops]

I also think 95% is way too high. I'd put it around 85% of players are long term losers. Im not for sure how it works, but you may get someone in a period of a few months who is running hot all his way up to the 215s. Then he gets hit by "variance" and starts to give back the money into the pool. Then there's the majority of poker players who don't play like us 2+2ers but steadily and surely give away their money.

Ever talk to a guy at your college or something who says he likes poker and thinks he is good? Well, be nice to him because he will be donating his money into the pool for us.

[Mark1978]

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I chatted once with a guy who does addiction counselling, and what he had to say about problem gamblers was fascinating and rather scary. He said normal folks go to a casino or online with the goals of having a good time and/or winning. Problem gamblers, in contrast, have goals of having a bad time and losing. They are closet masochists who need to validate their poor opinion of themselves by losing. All of it. Always. They'll play, even through massive upswings, until it is all gone. The motivation is to concretize in a tangible way their nebulous self-loathing and psychic pain. Sort of like cutters.

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It makes me sad to hear of people like this. Just think of all that cash going to waste on guaranteed losses such as roulette, slots etc. If only we could get them to focus purely on poker.

[downtown]

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but whats the point in playing if you have a negative expectation? (except homegames for fun)

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1) Go to local gas station.
2) Ask person buying lotto ticket, "Why?"
3) ???

[The once and future king]

Go sharkscope.com

Type in Bad Brans.

One of the whos.

[Sparta45]

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I chatted once with a guy who does addiction counselling, and what he had to say about problem gamblers was fascinating and rather scary. He said normal folks go to a casino or online with the goals of having a good time and/or winning. Problem gamblers, in contrast, have goals of having a bad time and losing. They are closet masochists who need to validate their poor opinion of themselves by losing. All of it. Always. They'll play, even through massive upswings, until it is all gone. The motivation is to concretize in a tangible way their nebulous self-loathing and psychic pain. Sort of like cutters.

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I had a roommate once who was in GA and talking to him about poker was very interesting. I've always been a very prudent gambler, but talking to him really gave me insight into how a problem gambler thinks. For example, he would tell me (in all seriousness) about how when he would play poker he would often call with the worst hand knowing full well that he was a huge dog to win the pot. But he would call anyway just to see if he could get *lucky* and win. Even if he felt he only had a 5% chance of winning, he would call anyway. Furthermore, he said he didn't really care if he won or lost, the excitement to him was just to see if he could hit his hand.

The way he was talking and the way he would tell the story, I knew that he wasn't just fluffing, but rather he really did only care about "the action". Winning or losing, +EV or -EV was something he understood and was aware of (he was actually a pretty good poker player), but he really could just care less about playing to make money or playing to win. It was the action he craved. The action was his high, and winning or losing the pot didn't matter to him one bit.

Anyway, rooming with this guy helped me understand how sometimes somebody on TV makes a play or makes a call where they have to know they are a huge dog to win the hand, but they call anyway. And it helped me understand that when you play poker, you really want to understand the psychology of the people you're playing against. If you know that somebody is a gambler who really craves the action, moving all-in with the nuts can be a very good play even though 90% of people would fold....your opponent might call with almost no outs, just because he wants to see if he can backdoor a flush.

[citanul]

ok, this thread is just stupid.

we answered who loses all the money.

if you want to know why they lose it or what they think about it go take a class in psychology or just go to that forum or something.

citanul