The Goldielocks of turn calls

nomadtla · #1 04-30-2006, 06:50 PM

I want to know if I am calling down to much or not enough or just right so here's some samples tell me what you'd do.

Hand 1
Villan - not out of line little loose little (23 VPIP) little passive, but decent postflop.
SB - really loose, really passive

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Nomad is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Nomad raises, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Nomad raises, MP3 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Nomad bets, SB calls, BB raises, Nomad ?

Hand B
A donkbet
Villan is loose (50 VPIP) after 40 hands but pretty straight forward betting his good c/calling his bad.

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Nomad is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 5 folds, Nomad raises, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Nomad bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.70 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Nomad ?

Hand 3
MP1 is UTG in hand B
Villan is a solid tag 19/8/1.96 after 600+ hands (yes I leave up xtra tables to datamine when I'm playing at UB)

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Nomad is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, 4 folds, SB calls, Nomad 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, SB calls, Nomad calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Nomad raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (12 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Nomad raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, SB 3-bets, Nomad ?

So that's all you get give me some feedback yo!

Kwaz · #2 04-30-2006, 07:06 PM

Hand 1. If the guy is decent postflop, his c/r in the protected pot spells doom. If he's great postflop, that's exactly what he wants you to think.
I'd call down.

Hand 2. I fold. You have to be good here 50% to call down. Even if that was true, you'll get outdrawn 25% of the time anyway.

Hand 3. Call down. But I must admit that a stop and go like this from a solid tag is bad news, especially after your preflop cap.
Capping the turn crossed my mind with MP coming along but I doubt you're ahead of SB often enough and MP may fold to the cap as well.

AMadison · #3 04-30-2006, 07:18 PM

Hand 1- I fear that I'm not good, but that pot is too big, I'm not laying down TPTK when the board pairs on the turn. I'm calling down.

Hand B- I'm mucking this one. The pot is small, and it's very possible we're drawing dead. I'm letting the guy who plays any two cards have this pot. Especially if he bets his good ones....

Hand C- I'm capping this pot. And then I'm likely to raise/cap the river too. Some may say that that is being to aggressive, but the pot is big and because it wasn't capped on the flop I doubt AA, the only thing I'd really be scared of. SB mihgt have 9T, but I think a TAG would be re-raising top pair, not just calling. So I'm capping this pot here and probably doing the same on the river. I think c/c would be an okay play here, but that's not my style. BB hasn't sold me on better than KK yet.

nomadtla · #4 04-30-2006, 07:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1- I fear that I'm not good, but that pot is too big, I'm not laying down TPTK when the board pairs on the turn. I'm calling down.

Hand B- I'm mucking this one. The pot is small, and it's very possible we're drawing dead. I'm letting the guy who plays any two cards have this pot. Especially if he bets his good ones....

Hand C- I'm capping this pot. And then I'm likely to raise/cap the river too. Some may say that that is being to aggressive, but the pot is big and because it wasn't capped on the flop I doubt AA, the only thing I'd really be scared of. SB mihgt have 9T, but I think a TAG would be re-raising top pair, not just calling. So I'm capping this pot here and probably doing the same on the river. I think c/c would be an okay play here, but that's not my style. BB hasn't sold me on better than KK yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm interesting. and Kwaz as well. I am purposefully not revealling my thoughts as they may lead to you guessing my actions and thus having results orriented posting.

To AMadison: Hand 3- T9 as you said is unlikely for a TAG but would he not play a raise pot with TT, 99 (maybe) like this? Capping just seems over the top. Deffinately if I raise the river and he 3 bets.

To both: Hand 1- "The pot is big mentality" I will still probably have to call at least 2 bets. If SB stays (probably will) I have to be good 1:7 considering I will have to call a river bet. Am I good 13% against a decent players C/R of a protected pot.

topspin · #5 04-30-2006, 09:40 PM

Hand 1: Call down. You'll pick off a bluff or a worse ace here often enough to make it worthwhile.

Hand 2: Fold; pot is small and your outs are questionable.

Hand 3: Call down. His most likely holding is T9, and you have plenty of outs to counterfeit. Once on river, make the crying call into the big pot.