Going Broke with Aces

[Thrahl]

Bodog 25/50 NL Stacks are about even.

I'm in MP, its folded around to me I find A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and raise it up to 4.5x the BB. Folded to the SB (loose,somewhat aggressive) who thinks a while before just calling. The BB also calls.

Flop comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB leads out and makes a pot sized bet, BB folds. I reraise all in he calls and shows 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for 2 pair.

Turn is a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
River is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Is there a way for me to play Aces any worse than this?
My philosophy of playing them very fast, regardless of what comes on the flop doesn't seem to be working that well for me. The Stu Unger line about Aces being good for winning you small pots and loosing big ones comes to mind.

[Dopey]

Not a great board for aces but what are the stack sizes. Saying you have equal stacks doesn't help if we don't know how much you have.

In your example it makes alot of difference, because if he bet $5 into a $5 pot and you raise all-in for 40 more its probably a really bad play. But if you only have 10 left and raise all-in it isn't near as bad (maybe not right but not as bad).

Edit: See if you can find a converter (Is ther one for Bodog?). If not try and put it so we can see the actions (in $ amounts) and the pot size, it will make it alot easier to follow.

Edit #2: Your philosophy is bad. Stack size and what comes is important and can't be ignored. Some times because of stack size what comes will not matter but as a general philosophy everything matters.

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[B1ight]

Why would you reraise all in on that flop? Frankly that scares the [censored] of me and I fold to his bet.

[Robin Bancs]

Sure, you need to raice the pot to find out where you are.....but allin seems a bit excessive with that flop. It's a shocker for Aces and alarm bells should be ringing when it lands, especially from a player that you describe as fairly loose.

[B1ight]

i agree dopey but with no stack size information its the best info I can give.

I would at most flat call I definatley wouldn't push in this situation.

[Thrahl]

[ QUOTE ]
Not a great board for aces but what are the stack sizes. Saying you have equal stacks doesn't help if we don't know how much you have.

In your example it makes alot of difference, because if he bet $5 into a $5 pot and you raise all-in for 40 more its probably a really bad play. But if you only have 10 left and raise all-in it isn't near as bad (maybe not right but not as bad).

Edit: See if you can find a converter (Is ther one for Bodog?). If not try and put it so we can see the actions (in $ amounts) and the pot size, it will make it alot easier to follow.



Edit #2: Your philosophy is bad. Stack size and what comes is important and can't be ignored. Some times because of stack size what comes will not matter but as a general philosophy everything matters.

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

None of the converters work with bodog, at least that I know of.

Hero 47.50
Villain 51.00
BB 41.00

Pot was $7.50 going into the flop
Villain bet $7 making the pot $14.50


[ QUOTE ]
Why would you reraise all in on that flop? Frankly that scares the [censored] of me and I fold to his bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will readily admit to playing them horribly. But you insta fold to that bet, with that board? You don't think he could make that bet with a hand that I am ahead of at the time? Like a pair and flush draw (K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) or even QQ giving him an over pair on an OESD, or a pair and a queen?

[Poker Fool]

the way you play aces almost ensures you win small and lose large if this is your standard line.

people will play a wide range of hands against you if you make a flop push like this regularly, the implied odds are just too enticing if deep stacks are involved.


this hand:
the flop is just sooo ugly its not true.

I am not ready to give up aces on the flop, plenty of hands I am beating.

Given stack size/pot size the bet is tricky for me, I dont want to be playing for stacks here.

Heads up I am going to discount the flush, for one thing villian has made a pot sized bet and seeing a flush draw on every flop is just too tiring, odds are against this is what villian is going for.

So I am not going to make a bet on the flop to cut off the draw (convenient as if I do we are almost certainly playing for stacks by the river).

I min-raise here, if he comes over the top I am done (I've laid down winning hands before i'll do it again).

[Robin Bancs]

That all in is even uglier than I feared then........

[terp]

raise flop to 20, shutdown/fold if he calls/more action ensues (unless turn is a club and you pick up the redraw...) if he calls that bet, you're either barely ahead or way behind. thus ignore "pot odds" if he then pushes the turn...you're definitely beaten.

buttom two pair is the worst made hand you see here from a decent player.

if you were OOP and he raised you on that flop i would say fold right away, but against a loose player you need to at least put in one raise here.

[censored] spot when someone leads into your overpair on that ass board and you feel like the mandatory raise is going to commit you...

[labrat]

[ QUOTE ]
But you insta fold to that bet, with that board? You don't think he could make that bet with a hand that I am ahead of at the time? Like a pair and flush draw (K J ) or even QQ giving him an over pair on an OESD, or a pair and a queen?

[/ QUOTE ]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

155,430 games 0.110 secs 1,413,000 games/sec

Board: 9c Tc Js
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 39.8337 % 38.71% 01.13% { AcAh }
Hand 2: 60.1663 % 59.04% 01.13% { 99+, AJs, KJs+, Q8s+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 7c6c, 6c5c, 5c4c, AJo, KJo+, Q8o+, JTo, T9o, 98o, 87o }

Now I've given him a really wide (read:generous) range here, any overpair,any OESD, any TP hand (well, except like J3) and you're not in good shape.

I'm favoring a fold here, without a read that he loves opening OOP. If he folds the tp hands as well (and I think many can fold KJ and AJ to this push) then your situation gets worse.

With 14$ already in the pot, 40% equity is pretty close to breakeven if you push (with ~34$ left), but as I've said I think this is a best case scenario so I think it's -ve EV, and clearly dependant on how much crap he calls with.