A donkbet from a suspected rock?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
His flop donk usually does mean an ace. I don't mind the line you took (call the flop & see what happens on the turn, call the turn with your flush draw) up until the river bet...his line is pretty standard for a good ace that's put you on exactly what you have and doesn't expect you to call a river bet with your UI pocket pair. He's never, ever folding an ace on the river, and while he may call your bet with a smaller PP I think he's got the ace far more often than that happens.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed.

[tom10167]

The reverse implied odds you have for a running 2nd nut flush draw are pretty low. Ac Ks

River is bad, villain never calls with a hand you beat.

[marrek]

I have to disagree with most and say i HATE your flop call. I think that it is typical of 3-6 ( even from winning players) to call down , but a raise is sooo much better.

By rasieing, he "MAY" fold an AJ or AQ, fearing AK. This is unlikely but you can still see the river for cheaper by getting a free card on the turn. Also, if he 3-bets, you can fold now, losing less.

If he was very strong, he *should* be slowplaying vs you're obvious flop continuation bet, not leading.

If he also has a 2nd Pair type of hand, he will slow down, and may even fold KK.

Calling is only good if there's a high probability that hes bluffing and will continue to throughout every street.

mark

[JacksonTens]

Do we call a turn bet without the FD? I'm not sure I do.

JT

[duckman]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with most and say i HATE your flop call. I think that it is typical of 3-6 ( even from winning players) to call down , but a raise is sooo much better.

By rasieing, he "MAY" fold an AJ or AQ, fearing AK. This is unlikely but you can still see the river for cheaper by getting a free card on the turn. Also, if he 3-bets, you can fold now, losing less.

If he was very strong, he *should* be slowplaying vs you're obvious flop continuation bet, not leading.

If he also has a 2nd Pair type of hand, he will slow down, and may even fold KK.

Calling is only good if there's a high probability that hes bluffing and will continue to throughout every street.

mark

[/ QUOTE ]
Nobody folds AJ, or AQ to a flop raise here - the only hands you fold are those you beat and want to continue betting. Calling down is standard in WA-WB situations though I myself advocated for a flop raise but for a differnt rationale than you -it sets up a turn check through to get cheapest to showdown (save 1/2 a bet fold to turn stop and go). While we have only 20 hands this player does not look like a lagtard so he is probably average to tighter

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with most and say i HATE your flop call. I think that it is typical of 3-6 ( even from winning players) to call down , but a raise is sooo much better.




By rasieing, he "MAY" fold an AJ or AQ, fearing AK. This is unlikely but you can still see the river for cheaper by getting a free card on the turn. Also, if he 3-bets, you can fold now, losing less.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only way I would like a flop raise over the line Hero took here is if we are committed to seeing a showdown, which we are not. The flop bet is almost always a medium ace, probably AK or AQs if the read is correct, feeling out Hero to see where he stands. In this case I don't mind the flop call because:

-Villain might check to us on the turn, fearing a delayed raise or giving up the odd time he did bet with a smaller PP.
-We have a backdoor draw to the 2nd nut flush.
-There's the additional small chance that we turn a Q.

However, unless we improve on the turn (either to a set or a 4-flush), I'm folding to another bet 100% of the time (against this opponent and on this limit). So it just doesn't make sense to invest 2 SBs in the pot when a good portion of the time I'd otherwise be folding after putting in 1. And for the record, very few players at 3/6 are going to fold TPGK here, and especially not a rock if the read is correct--they don't play hands often and they don't play them aggressively, but by definition you are not pushing one off of his hand when he does decide to enter a pot. Even at the higher limits against more sophisticated opponents, getting him to fold TPGK here will require betting the turn and the river, and even then it's up in the air (and he generally has to have a read on you as a solid player before he even considers folding AQ or AJ here).

[ QUOTE ]
If he was very strong, he *should* be slowplaying vs you're obvious flop continuation bet, not leading.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why slowplay? Either you have the ace or you don't; if you don't then there's no guarantee that you even bet the flop. I will routinely check through the flop in a situation like this if given the opportunity...again, unless the turn card helps me I'm probably folding to any aggression he shows, so why risk being check/raised by what looks like a pretty straightforward player? On the other hand, if I know my opponent is aggressive, let's give him the chance to bluff at the turn & river.

[ QUOTE ]
If he also has a 2nd Pair type of hand, he will slow down, and may even fold KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has KK he probably caps preflop. Even if for some reason he doesn't, how many times have you seen someone check/call all the way to showdown with KK when an ace flops? A lot of players just can't throw away hands like that...especially not rocks, who play so few hands to begin with and generally feel some sense of entitlement when they do get a premium hand. And if he decided not to cap with the KK, to disguise the strength of his hand or wait & see the flop, why on Earth would he then lead into Hero when the ace flops?