How Good/Bad was my line

Asterix77 · #1 04-26-2006, 06:16 AM

Appologies in advance if there is little in this hand...

UTG is LAP (61/24/1,3) only 80 hands logged though

PokerRoom 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, SB folds.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Is this a standard line to take? Coments on all streets appreciated.

Cheers

TJ Eckleburg · #2 04-26-2006, 06:24 AM

Don't apologize... a) this hand has content, and b) "standard" hands are arguably the most important, especially in this forum.

Preflop is fine, obviously... for 12 SB on the flop, and relative position, I think raising the flop is better than calling. For UTG's stats of 61 VP$IP we're up against 1 pair a vast majority of the time, and a flop raise will clean up our outs and narrow the field.

For the turn, I think if you want to raise the turn you should take a free showdown. That's why position is great! Bet if you improve, spend the same 2 BB for call/call on the turn and river by being aggressive.

I don't like the river bet UI. Passive players love calling, so you don't have a lot of bluff equity... and the pot's certainly big enough to merit a call from him. Every draw hit, and I don't think we're frequently ahead on the flop... so I can't imagine us being ahead on the river here.

topspin · #3 04-26-2006, 07:25 AM

Everything's good up until the turn raise. Why put in 2 bets when you're behind here? There's no value in buying a free showdown with A-high. I'd rather preserve my chance to raise the river if I hit. Just call and fold river UI.

Eagle05 · #4 04-26-2006, 07:31 AM

I'd just call the turn and check behind on the river.

Str8Fish · #5 04-26-2006, 07:36 AM

I'm definitely not a fan of the turn or river bet. The guy TOLD you he has a hand by betting on the flop. A raise on the turn is not going to fold him. Nor is the river bet. c/c the turn, c/f the river.

Asterix77 · #6 04-26-2006, 07:56 AM

So after I turn the flush draw and my outs increase fairly considerably, there is no value in raising here?

I realise that the river was bad UI and there is no way the guy is folding for this bet.

Thanks for feedback so far

TJ Eckleburg · #7 04-26-2006, 08:01 AM

I really don't like the flop just-call. We are likely behind (with 6 overcard outs) in a coordinated board and need to thin the field and clean up our outs. We have good relative position to knock out the rest of the field, and we have fold equity working from our PFR.

Plus, we can make UTG check the turn to us, giving us the option of the free card. However, if that happens, I think we should bet (and call a check/raise) because

a) we could win the pot right there
b) we've picked up 12 more nut straight/flush outs
c) free showdown if we miss

Even ignoring the turn, I think the flop is a must raise to clean up outs, thin the field, and wield position.

inferno · #8 04-26-2006, 08:21 AM

im calling the turn here and check/fold river

Ampelmann · #9 04-26-2006, 08:23 AM

Why do you raise the turn?

Ampelmann · #10 04-26-2006, 08:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So after I turn the flush draw and my outs increase fairly considerably, there is no value in raising here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain has hit something you have around 15 outs on the turn (9 hearts, 3 J's and about 3 for your overs). Your equity is therefore 15/46, that's onyl about 1/3. You don't have an edge in equity, therefore raising is not for value (not for yours [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).