Do you ever check-raise a river?

[Atropos]

Hey folks,
I just realized I never check-raise rivers for value. I dont know any situations where it would be apropriate either. Maybe if my Flush just hit at the river, or I have been slowplaying something all the time, and the river likely made a 2nd best hand for my opponent. However it is not clear, if betting out, hoping to get raised isnt the better play.

Since I never check-raise the river with value hands, I shouldnt check-raise the river with bluffs either, because it would be too expensive then [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

So my questions are:
a) Do you know any good situations for check-raising the river for value?
or
b) Do you only check-raise it to bluff someone out, and do not raise for value at all, because most players are not observant enough to notice it?

[The Young Gun]

Usually check raising is only applicable if villain has been in control of the tempo. However even then most of the time if villain isn't solid he will simply check it down.

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey folks,
I just realized I never check-raise rivers for value. I dont know any situations where it would be apropriate either. Maybe if my Flush just hit at the river, or I have been slowplaying something all the time, and the river likely made a 2nd best hand for my opponent. However it is not clear, if betting out, hoping to get raised isnt the better play.

Since I never check-raise the river with value hands, I shouldnt check-raise the river with bluffs either, because it would be too expensive then [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

So my questions are:
a) Do you know any good situations for check-raising the river for value?
or
b) Do you only check-raise it to bluff someone out, and do not raise for value at all, because most players are not observant enough to notice it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I've ever check raise river bluffed, though I've certainly considered it. It seems to be a move that can only work against a thinking opponent who you've played hundreds of hands against.

I go for a check raise on the river almost every time I hit the top full house with two pair on the board. Value betting that hand is usually pointless because the opponent could easily fold the lower full house - but if you check to him, he may bet the same hand.

River check raising is generally too fancy a play - it's so difficult to do without the nuts, and rarely pays off when it is done with the nuts. If you're playing a lot of HU or 3 handed you could use it occasionally to keep your opponents on their toes and force them to give you some free showdowns.

[nrinker]

If I find out my opponent has a great 2nd best hand, I will overbet push a river.

I just don't have the balls to risk them checking behind when I have the nutts.

[Bill King]

i usually only check raise someone that i think is able to pull off a bluff at a missed draw. if i think the guy has an open ended, or a FD and i havent been showing too much strength and he misses, usually they will toss out a bluff if you check the river.. thinking possibly you missed your draw also.

check raise bluffs on the river arent really a good move to make unless you're sure he'll fold to a check raise and it will scare him out of the pot.. but most of the time in a NL game if you get to the river and you check raise a good player will pick that off, its a very fishy move.

a lot of the time if you value bet right out after you have been calling the whole way it is a situation where you think the guy was not on a draw and will call with a worse hand, but check raising on the river is a rare move that should only be used if you're sure he'll bluff at it.

[wtfsvi]

I have a missed draw with no showdown value, I think he either has a weak made hand that he will call a bet or check behind if I check, or a draw that will bluff if I check. I check raise.

I have the nuts, I think he has a missed draw that he might bluff if I check to him. I check raise.

I have a boat, and a flush just hit the river. I think he's on it. He will probably call a bet or bet if checked to, and probably won't be able to get away from his flush unless I overbet (maybe not if I overbet either, but if he's getting away from the flush, that's how it's happening). I check raise.

[-Skeme-]

I've only check-raised a river 6 times in 38,123 hands. I've done it once with a bluff and I got away with it.

[Albert Moulton]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a missed draw with no showdown value, I think he either has a weak made hand that he will call a bet or check behind if I check, or a draw that will bluff if I check. I check raise.

I have the nuts, I think he has a missed draw that he might bluff if I check to him. I check raise.

I have a boat, and a flush just hit the river. I think he's on it. He will probably call a bet or bet if checked to, and probably won't be able to get away from his flush unless I overbet (maybe not if I overbet either, but if he's getting away from the flush, that's how it's happening). I check raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't remember ever check raising the river, but the situations above seems like good candidates.

[Slappz]

I check raise the river 3% of the time according to PT. Its usually something i do if I dont have the betting lead in the hand and I know my opponent is aggressive, likes to bluff scary boards, or if i hit a disguised draw.

[BobboFitos]

I do it alot, it's underused imo.