Checking AA on SFD flop. 10-20

JooWish622 · #1 04-22-2006, 10:04 AM

6 handed, hero is dealt AA in SB, no relevant reads. Hero has 2000 behind.

EP and MP limps, button folds, hero raises to 120, EP calls.

FLop: 789, two hearts. Would you guys advise check/calling here on flop and then leading turn on a safe card? Or, is the 2+2 consensus, once again, betting the flop.

I feel by stopping and going instead of betting/checking if a bad card comes is that with the first option, you're gonig to check the turn anyway if a bad card comes but it looks like you're drawing (since you checked flop), this way a hand like T8, doesnt bluff you off turn when you lead flop then check turn. Understand? Thoughts? Also, you really don't want to get raised on flop. By check-calling you also get money into the pot against a hand like KQ, heartless.

Thoughts?

MDMA · #2 04-22-2006, 10:50 AM

Bet flop, you knew we would say this. Only reason to ever do an unorthodox check is with reads against a very specific opponent, and then you would have to have VERY good reasons to do it even so.

Against unknowns, this is a no brainer.

JooWish622 · #3 04-22-2006, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet flop, you knew we would say this. Only reason to ever do an unorthodox check is with reads against a very specific opponent, and then you would have to have VERY good reasons to do it even so.

Against unknowns, this is a no brainer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh... does anyone disagree???

I keep asking... what if you're raised on the flop... then fold? 3 bet? call and let a bad card come off in an inflated pot?

WaterlooPoker · #4 04-22-2006, 03:17 PM

Doyle Brunson might agree with you.

samoleus · #5 04-22-2006, 03:56 PM

This is really dependent on the aggression/looseness of your opponents. I would mix up my play quite a bit in this situation. An important consideration is whether or not you have the ace of hearts.

RDWallace · #6 04-22-2006, 05:12 PM

Hey Jeff,

I agree that against certain opponents a stop/go is vastly preferable to bet/3bet, bet/call or bet/fold. It just gets the money in better, most of the time. I think an important consideration is how often you are folding to a raise on your turn bet. For example, lets say villain pots and you call, the turn is a brick and you lead for 550. Are you calling a shove here? Keep in mind that your hand is fairly well defined as an overpair in this situation allowing your opponent to make more correct decisions.

Running well lately?

Time4Pizza · #7 04-22-2006, 05:45 PM

You have to fire a bet to define where you are at in the hand. I can see the wisdom in checking, but I would have to fire OOP anyway because there is the chance he'll simply fold. If I check that flop, I'm giving him an open door and if he's any kind of player he'll fire at that flop once I check. The problem is he MIGHT have a big hand. I get no information by checking, because he is obligated to fire with anything so his bet will tell me nothing. If I bet and he folds, well he missed. If I bet, and he calls now I know I have to slow down... whether he's planning to bluff or actually has a piece doesn't really matter... I have a horrible board OOP and my hand does not look so hot. Personally I would bet the flop, check turn, and be prepared to throw it away if he makes any sort of substantial bet. If he's bluffing, more power to him, he out manuvered me because of his position and there's very little I can do about it.

Lucky · #8 04-22-2006, 06:13 PM

Against the passive donks and nits, I like a bet here. Against good tricky players or maniacs who get crazy on flops like these, I like the stop and go.

This is not a great flop obviously out of position, so taking this cautious approach is warranted against some opponents.

JooWish622 · #9 04-23-2006, 11:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Jeff,

I agree that against certain opponents a stop/go is vastly preferable to bet/3bet, bet/call or bet/fold. It just gets the money in better, most of the time. I think an important consideration is how often you are folding to a raise on your turn bet. For example, lets say villain pots and you call, the turn is a brick and you lead for 550. Are you calling a shove here? Keep in mind that your hand is fairly well defined as an overpair in this situation allowing your opponent to make more correct decisions.

Running well lately?

[/ QUOTE ]

HEy Wallace,

How are you doing? How are YOU running lately? I've been doing well so far at 5-10, although the variance has been pretty big, i still average about 9 big bets an hour at this game, so was a good idea to move up.

Why is my hand defined as an overpair here? Is it because I, a good player, would typically lead with my flushes and sets on the flop? I guess I would typcially not stop go with the Ax of the suit and drawing hands.

Betting/calling flop raises/turn checking if a bad card hits just seems like too vulnerable a line to me... I'll be taken off my hand incorrectly too many times in inflated pots.

-Jeff

JooWish622 · #10 04-23-2006, 11:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to fire a bet to define where you are at in the hand. I can see the wisdom in checking, but I would have to fire OOP anyway because there is the chance he'll simply fold. If I check that flop, I'm giving him an open door and if he's any kind of player he'll fire at that flop once I check. The problem is he MIGHT have a big hand. I get no information by checking, because he is obligated to fire with anything so his bet will tell me nothing. If I bet and he folds, well he missed. If I bet, and he calls now I know I have to slow down... whether he's planning to bluff or actually has a piece doesn't really matter... I have a horrible board OOP and my hand does not look so hot. Personally I would bet the flop, check turn, and be prepared to throw it away if he makes any sort of substantial bet. If he's bluffing, more power to him, he out manuvered me because of his position and there's very little I can do about it.

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I don't mind him putting money in on the flop with any hand.

I can define my hand on the turn which is why I stop go