Tough turn call with TPTK

[EmpireMaker2]

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It certainly screams draw to me. It would take a very sly player to push all in w/a full house right there. Very tough spot, and the odd part is that his gross overbet is really the reason you want to call! As I said, if he's a skilled player and had a house, and thought he could represent a draw by making that move... well good for him, I think you deserve to pay him off. Only way I don't call, if he's an uber tight rock who I've seen make no out of line moves.

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I LOVE UR POSTS

[bigt439]

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It certainly screams draw to me. It would take a very sly player to push all in w/a full house right there. Very tough spot, and the odd part is that his gross overbet is really the reason you want to call! As I said, if he's a skilled player and had a house, and thought he could represent a draw by making that move... well good for him, I think you deserve to pay him off. Only way I don't call, if he's an uber tight rock who I've seen make no out of line moves.

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We're at the point where we stop correcting him right?

[Time4Pizza]

lol You're the guy who says CHECK the turn? I mean... lets take a vote... who says bet the turn, and who says check?

Wait wait wait... the guy who said to check the turn w/AK on THAT board is mocking me? Is that really what's happening here

[PartyGirlUK]

[DenGreek]

With no reads I fold and rebuy--sucks tho

[bigt439]

Alright, whatever.

I posted this in STTF a little while ago, but I'll repost it here as it's pretty relevant to this hand. This is why I check behind:

The thing about giving a free card to a draw is it is not nearly as disastrous as people on here think. If he has a flush draw he hits it 20% of the time. That's bad. However, if he misses it he will fire a bluff on the end a decent portion of the time because after all, you just raised pf and c-bet a flop and lots of villains will think once you check the turn they can take it away. By picking off some bluffs like this you severely reduce the EV you lose when they hit.

Another big thing is that you can get a bunch more value out of second best hands. If you raise pf, pot flop, pot turn, lots of weaker K's or hands like TT will just fold. However, betting flop, checking turn, then betting river (or calling if he bets) looks much weaker to some opponents and they'll look you up weakish.

Another big advantage is we can't get check-raised by either a semi-bluff or a better hand. Obviously the semi-bluff is self-explanatory if we're going to fold and against better hands we get a free card to improve. On this board there are not alot of second best K's and they likely won't pay off pots on all streets anyways so just wait to the river for the above reasons.

The idea is that you call anything up to a PSB on the end as you've induced it from busted draws or second best hands, although if you have a good read and the card is particular bad, chucking it isn't a crime.

So betting the turn is fine if you are happy calling the all-in. If it puts you in a really tought spot it's not a good spot to bet.

[integrate]

I'd call...wha'd he have? JcTc?

[Time4Pizza]

Very well explained bigt... and when you put it that way I can most certainly see where you're coming from. There would have to be some conditions for this check to be profitable in the long run. Mainly, you must know the guy is capable of pulling off a semi bluff here, which means you'd have to have a lot of respect for his game. Also, he must be capable of bluffing on the river. If he's your typical tight, play your draws passively type, I can't see a check here being profitable. If he's an aggressive, solid player I could definatly see your argument working. As Doyle says, this game is all about people (and position)

[PumaSwede]

On that board with no reads
U check (I dont like) or bet like you did and always call
the checkraise. With stacks of that size you dont bet if you cant call easy

[ender555]

I may start using this occasionally when I don't know a player very well, or know what he's capable of... I agree that it can't be that bad.


For those interested... He turned over 9hJh as my mouse went flying against my wall.