WPT Bellagio, Day 1: Is This the Reason Mark Seif Makes This Call? - Page 2

csuf_gambl0r · #11 04-19-2006, 10:57 AM

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Ummm I can't find the damn hand from the link.

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Found it. Scroll down to the entry titled "Deja Vu". No word of their respective stack sizes, unfortunately.

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wtf, you guys are crazy. This is an EASY call. How can you even think about laying down on that flop. weak-tight b1tches. and notice he did have the best hand and he called with the best hand.

BarronVangorToth · #12 04-19-2006, 11:02 AM

Against some players if you have a good read, I can see laying that down depending on how much of your stack you're talking about. However, his justification for doing it is what I found amusing -- i.e. not because he had the best hand, but because of other things.

Unless those "other things" were just a way to give himself an out if he made a horrendous play.

swarm · #13 04-19-2006, 11:47 AM

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Ummm I can't find the damn hand from the link.

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Found it. Scroll down to the entry titled "Deja Vu". No word of their respective stack sizes, unfortunately.

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wtf, you guys are crazy. This is an EASY call. How can you even think about laying down on that flop. weak-tight b1tches. and notice he did have the best hand and he called with the best hand.

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Hardly, you do realize that Seif's Kings were a dog when he called the all in. You add in the fact that many times he is facing two pair, a set, or straight this call is pretty bad. He called hoping that he was close to a coin flip, which he luckily was as a 45% dog.

His justification is ludicrous... He made a bad call and got lucky.

drewjustdrew · #14 04-19-2006, 12:20 PM

Only a bad call on the potential that opponent already had a straight or set. As a 45% dog (trusting swarm's math), the pot is already ~30k, and he needs to call less than 20k to rake in nearly 50k as the post describes.

MeanGreenTT · #15 04-19-2006, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
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Ummm I can't find the damn hand from the link.

[/ QUOTE ]
Found it. Scroll down to the entry titled "Deja Vu". No word of their respective stack sizes, unfortunately.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf, you guys are crazy. This is an EASY call. How can you even think about laying down on that flop. weak-tight b1tches. and notice he did have the best hand and he called with the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hardly, you do realize that Seif's Kings were a dog when he called the all in. You add in the fact that many times he is facing two pair, a set, or straight this call is pretty bad. He called hoping that he was close to a coin flip, which he luckily was as a 45% dog.

His justification is ludicrous... He made a bad call and got lucky.

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Isn't thay "results oriented?" What's his % against the vilians range, that's what applicable here, not after the cards are turned face up.

BarronVangorToth · #16 04-19-2006, 09:10 PM

Another hand from the day 2 caught my eye (about halfway down, control-F Jennifer Harman). Now, Ms. Harman in my book is clearly not only one of the best, if not the best, female players, but one of the best players period. That said, I found it surprising that she didn't find a raise in there... Way ahead (KK, QQ) and way behind (JJ)?

im2sexy4mychips · #17 04-20-2006, 04:43 AM

Hey Barron why do you always leap at every opportunity to suck Negreanu's balls? You act like he is far and away the best player in the world ever and everything he does is the coolest and everyone should care. And that poll where you can vote for your favorite player besides Daniel Negreanu. It's not funny--it's just kind of gross. (If people don't know what I'm talking about, go to planetstacked.com... but don't click any adds or buy the stupid game because I don't want him to profit off this post.)

swarm · #18 04-20-2006, 09:54 AM

"Only a bad call on the potential that opponent already had a straight or set. As a 45% dog (trusting swarm's math), the pot is already ~30k, and he needs to call less than 20k to rake in nearly 50k as the post describes."

To start the hand each player had 25k, Seif bets 5k and his opponnent puts him all in for another 20k. So Seif has to call 20k to win 30k (not 50k, you don't count the 20 he puts in) or 2.5 to 1. If they flip them face up then he would have the odds to call. However given the villans range (2 pair, straight, set, combo draw), size of the blinds, and the reluctance people were getting that many chips in this early it's very unlikely that Sief's hand is good and even if it is he is a slight dog for it to hold out.

"Isn't thay "results oriented?" What's his % against the vilians range, that's what applicable here, not after the cards are turned face up. "

Really? Isn't that what I was just saying. I'm saying that Sief is a far greater dog than 45% against villans range. He called, luckily the villan had the worst possible hand he could have here and his hand held up. Many time Sief will be drawing extemely thin here versus two pair, set or straight. I would say only one time out of 10 is this a combo draw versus the other holdings.

BarronVangorToth · #19 04-20-2006, 10:57 AM

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Hey Barron why do you always leap at every opportunity to suck Negreanu's balls? You act like he is far and away the best player in the world ever and everything he does is the coolest and everyone should care. And that poll where you can vote for your favorite player besides Daniel Negreanu. It's not funny--it's just kind of gross. (If people don't know what I'm talking about, go to planetstacked.com... but don't click any adds or buy the stupid game because I don't want him to profit off this post.)

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I must have missed all the times I mentioned Daniel Negreanu in this thread... Although I can see why you're shocked that he is a focus on the site to his upcoming video game. Moving onto the subject at hand...

BarronVangorToth · #20 04-20-2006, 11:01 AM

Something else to consider with Seif's odds -- let's say the tournament starts and you can gamble all your chips with your neighbor with some 50.5% to 49.5% proposition, in your favor.

In the real world, you'd do this all the time, assuming the bets were within your bankroll's means.

However, at a tournament, for all your chips -- don't you need MORE than the correct odds in some spots?

I think so.

Which is why the Seif call -- given the range his opponent could have -- seemed odd to me in the first place.

Again: a lot depends on his opponent and if there is some history there. You could have the right opponent where you always make that call; another where you always fold; and a third where you have to decide the ranges.

Jennifer Harman still not raising that hand threw me for a loop, though ... any thoughts on that?