How long did it take you to be a high stakes NL holdem pro?

[limon]

used to gladly play doyle and the crew heads up when he was gods gift to gambling. wonder what happened to him? there are sooo many players on line we will see 100's of archie karras situations. before you pack up and try the 4000-8000 you might want to take some time to do some soul searching.

if the on line "beasts" could really beat the big game...where are they? i see larry flynt's game often when im in the small game but i never see any of the on line players there. its always doyle and phil and chip and johnny and barry etc.. that game isnt mixed. its straight stud. huck seed posted recently that you dont have to play a big mix to get action from the top players. andy beal doesnt play mixed. mahatma played big live before, he wrote about it. and from his writings he seemed extremely intimidated by the game. todd brunson and huckster are around maybe you can goad them into a match. its funny that you think your online hu experience will transfer directly to live. it makes me think you view live heads up as more of a CARD game than it really is. live hu is psychological warfare. when ted forrest is dropping several mil to andy beal the fact that hes played 1000x as many poker hands probably doesnt factor in as much as waht andy is/was thinking in the last 100 hands and what hell do in the next 100.

i played the "big" (pennies to you studs) 10-20 commerce nl (was 10-10) long before internet and up to today. top internet players are tougher no doubt "straight out the gate". but i dont see any of them annihilating the game. the same faces from 2 decades ago are still there. also, regardless of what many of you say when you play live u slow down alot. i have played people live and on line for months w/o knowing. then after i found out who they were on line cant beleive its the same person.

[limon]

please post an example. im serious. i would like to see a "ridiculous" line taken by barry, ted, todd, doyle, daniel or chan. i'm really trying to learn here.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don;t think it's possible to make 1 million bucks in a year playing 3/6NL. Let's run the numbers real quick.

1 million dollars
=85 000 big bets
=230 BB/day (assuming you take zero days off)
=30 BB/hour (playing 8 hours/day)
=6 BB/100 (assuming 500 hands an hour)

So yes the win rate is achievable. That being said you'd pretty much need to be hooked up to your computer by intraveneous to have any chance of achieving it. Even if you were played on a laptop at the beach while getting a back massage and watching strippers shoot ping pong balls out of their snatches there is no way in hell you are playing this many hours of 3/6NL at 500 hands/hour.

EDIT: used 6$ not 12 $ as big bet

[/ QUOTE ]

The law of diminishing returns...

Perhaps each of the figures stated above is achievable, in ISOLATION, but together - impossible.

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
please post an example. im serious. i would like to see a "ridiculous" line taken by barry, ted, todd, doyle, daniel or chan. i'm really trying to learn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't a big fan of Barry's all-in call of Daniel's overbet when Daniel had something like Kx clubs and Barry had naked Ac and Barry sucked out to win. In of the earlier episodes.

-g

[BLdSWtTRs]

[ QUOTE ]
used to gladly play doyle and the crew heads up when he was gods gift to gambling. wonder what happened to him? there are sooo many players on line we will see 100's of archie karras situations. before you pack up and try the 4000-8000 you might want to take some time to do some soul searching.

if the on line "beasts" could really beat the big game...where are they? i see larry flynt's game often when im in the small game but i never see any of the on line players there. its always doyle and phil and chip and johnny and barry etc.. that game isnt mixed. its straight stud. huck seed posted recently that you dont have to play a big mix to get action from the top players. andy beal doesnt play mixed. mahatma played big live before, he wrote about it. and from his writings he seemed extremely intimidated by the game. todd brunson and huckster are around maybe you can goad them into a match. its funny that you think your online hu experience will transfer directly to live. it makes me think you view live heads up as more of a CARD game than it really is. live hu is psychological warfare. when ted forrest is dropping several mil to andy beal the fact that hes played 1000x as many poker hands probably doesnt factor in as much as waht andy is/was thinking in the last 100 hands and what hell do in the next 100.

i played the "big" (pennies to you studs) 10-20 commerce nl (was 10-10) long before internet and up to today. top internet players are tougher no doubt "straight out the gate". but i dont see any of them annihilating the game. the same faces from 2 decades ago are still there. also, regardless of what many of you say when you play live u slow down alot. i have played people live and on line for months w/o knowing. then after i found out who they were on line cant beleive its the same person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anybody who's watched High Stakes Poker on GSN knows that most of these guys are jokes. By far the best NL cash player at the table is Antonio and then I would say 2nd is Farha. All the other players are way too passive except Daniel who is lagtarded.

I would consider Phil Hellmuth, Jennifer Harman, Daniel Negreanu, Freddy Deeb, Doyle Brunson, Shieky to be poor cash game players.

For me to step into the 4000 -8000 game I would need atleast a $10,000,000 bankroll. After taxes and real estate payments, and other expenditures, and even with good investing you would have to have won at least $20,000,000 in your poker career. On top of that a lot of the best online players only know how to play NL hold'em and/ or SH limit hold'em. And the big games I suppose are usually mixed.

[captZEEbo]

I said I'd play them online at 50/100 NL and I'm sure mahat would too. Heck, he's played ivey hu a bunch too. Why wouldn't he play Doyle who's surely a worse HU NL cash player. Never said I'd play them at 4k/8k that's precisely what I said I wouldn't do.

[swings100]

[ QUOTE ]


I would consider Phil Hellmuth, Jennifer Harman, Daniel Negreanu, Freddy Deeb, Doyle Brunson, Shieky to be poor cash game players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna be blunt, I don't care how much you've won online or how many people on this forum seem to respect you, you are a joke, and that statement was an absolute joke. You think you are hard now, but you haven't played the best in the world, you've found a profitable edge playing basic players over the internet, if you ever stepped into a real cardroom you would have absolutely no edge, I would gladly play you or any one of your friends any day live or online because you all need a reality check and need to download some respect.

[ggbman]

Swings,

I dont agree 100% with his statement. But who the [censored] are you? What makes you think you have any edghe over the top online players who make more, play more hands, and play better competition that you do live?

[Lyric]

[ QUOTE ]
please post an example. im serious. i would like to see a "ridiculous" line taken by barry, ted, todd, doyle, daniel or chan. i'm really trying to learn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Daniel calls 20% of Stupak's stack with 77 pre flop. 20k and stupak has 100k. There is no way this is ever correct.
Daniel raises from the BB KJo and calls a huge limp re-raise from a tight player.
Daniel calls other re-raises to 30% or more of the other guy's stack with trouble trash like KJ, QT, etc.
Daniel shoves with TPTK every time he gets it, it seems.
Daniel draws to a flush on a paired flop against Brunson and goes broke when he hits.

Barry Insta-calls all in with a four flush.
Barry insta-calls all-in with QQ against Brunson's re-raise all in for 100k
Barry states later that "it's KK vs AA. obv all the money is going in the middle" after he and sammy stack off for 200bb with them.
(I can't call any of these actual errors, as he had odds to call with the four flush if his ace was good. He and Doyle probably have history, and he may have been spouting [censored] for an audience when he was speaking about the KK vs AA)


Doyle limp re raises all in with AKo from middle position against two donkeys -- nessiri and buss, for 100k into a 4.4k pot.(Marginal, read dependant)

Doyle stacks off with AA for 150k vs Daniel's set on a K8x flop. In all 13 shows Daniel never CALLS all in with top pair. No reason to think Daniel will call with anything AA can beat.(Marginal, perhaps Daniel does call all in with TP and Doyle knows this)

Most of these guys are happy to play for raises out of position with dominated trash, and these are only a few examples.

Among the pros, Daniel is making the most mistakes. Antonio seems to have made no mistakes. Todd and Ted seem to play well too. Chan is a nit but plays profitably.

The amateurs are all donks. Hellmuth is a jopke. Worse than the amateurs.

[swings100]

[ QUOTE ]
Swings,

I dont agree 100% with his statement. But who the [censored] are you? What makes you think you have any edghe over the top online players who make more, play more hands, and play better competition that you do live?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to promote myself or draw attention to myself, I'm trying to see that the lack of class that a lot of these young punks are showing is corrected, this is a public forum, and you want to call some of the best cash game players in the world soft?

Furthermore, I don't care how many tables you play or how many online SNG's you've won, ANY one of the regulars in the cardrooms I play in would absolutely outclass you, I'll give you directions and you come play with me heads-up over the course of six months and I guarantee I'll break you, the same is said for any of the other high-classed professionals who've been rounding before Moneymaker fueled this pipedream in your head. You are an INTERNET PRO, don't you ever cross that line and defame some of the best players in the world who have promoted poker and carried it into the highest level.