What's he folding, what's he calling with

[TheLoser]

ummm, that is how u get tricky?

[billyjex]

so he's checkraising a very quiet UTG raiser.. can't we just fold and move on?

[Apathy]

I think you should assume they will fold any ten or draw.

[uclabruinz]

Shaniac, this gets a little away from your question but can you talk a little about your cbet here?

I feel cbetting with a mediocre holding like this invites a LAGy player to come over the top and put us into a difficult position. There really is no way to put him on ANY hand because the preflop call is standard with a huge range and the flop c/raise is standard for a LAG against a tight player putting out what looks like a cbet.

Anyway, I think he probably calls with 2 pairs or the nut flush draw with a second overcard and folds everything else.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]

I feel cbetting with a mediocre holding like this invites a LAGy player to come over the top and put us into a difficult position. There really is no way to put him on ANY hand because the preflop call is standard with a huge range and the flop c/raise is standard for a LAG against a tight player putting out what looks like a cbet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that this was the ideal spot for it, but the reason to c-bet marginal hands is that you pick up enough small pots to fade the chips you lose when you get check-raised and have to fold. I'm also cont-betting strong hands here.

In this case, when he put out the 1400, I thought he was just putting my weak-continuation bet to the test with a marginal hand of his own, so I shoved, or put in most of the rest of my stack (saved two 500 chips for no particular reason). He called allin with J8o and won.

[NHFunkii]

wow, that sure as hell wasn't in my calling range.

[THEOSU]

I would say that if most of the pots on the table have been going to showdown that a shove here would be more likely to go to one as well. Normally I would say he'd fold weaker tens (probably call with AT and maaaybe KT), flush draw with unders, etc. Since the table is as you describe, I'd include all tens in his range along with most straight and flush draws.

[MLG]

yeah, there's a reason a table is playing fast. it means somebody or bodies are giving excessive action. im not running a play like that till i know who those people are.

[uclabruinz]

[ QUOTE ]
Not that this was the ideal spot for it, but the reason to c-bet marginal hands is that you pick up enough small pots to fade the chips you lose when you get check-raised and have to fold. I'm also cont-betting strong hands here.

In this case, when he put out the 1400, I thought he was just putting my weak-continuation bet to the test with a marginal hand of his own, so I shoved, or put in most of the rest of my stack (saved two 500 chips for no particular reason). He called allin with J8o and won.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this strategy is that your cbet/shove doesn't look like a strongly made hand, it looks like a draw or an attempt to make a stronger hand fold. Thus, villain's call with a mediocre holding.

[MLG]

please, his bet here looks exactly like AA/KK as well as AKs/AQs with the draw. The fact that he got called is an indication of how badly the table was playing, not of how bad his line is.