Four Rockets - Page 4

PokeHer · #31 04-05-2006, 06:13 PM

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Hand 1: I can fold, because 97s would be a beautiful hand.

Hand 2: I can't fold.

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If you're playing 97s this way you're leaking money IMO

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That's quite true, but I'm going to take big leap here and assume you've played online enough to know that leaking money is something that most online players are doing. I applaude them for it and thank them for my new tv. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

#32 04-05-2006, 06:56 PM

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All in, both hands.

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ajmargarine · #33 04-05-2006, 08:29 PM

Hand #1, IMO, should be folded. 4-handed at this limit, guys don't screw around too much in the bigger pots. KK is often a reraise PF. JJ/QQ, meh possible, and we would fold the best hand, but at least 1/2 the time an unknown would play that passively. A straight probably slowplays, but it could be that. A T9-type hand is calling, not raising. This is a set alot.

Of course, I'm not good enough to fold, so I pushed. Luckily I suck out very goot:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG ($99.40)
Hero ($133.20)
Button ($120.53)
SB ($99)
BB ($190.36)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, Hero raises to $5, Button calls $5, 1 fold, BB calls $4, UTG calls $4.

Flop: ($20.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $19, Button raises to $43, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $109.20 (All-In), Button calls $72.53 (All-In).

Turn: ($264.23) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($264.23) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $264.23

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ad (four of a kind, aces).
Button has Tc Th (full house, tens full of aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $264.23. 

Hand #2 is a clear push. He might have a set. As a TAG, he's perfectly capable of semi-bluff raising a flush draw. He also has a pp here quite a bit. Overall, it's a push. Stop-n-go semisux in this situation, IMO.

Results: I was extremely surprised that he called my push. I found out after the hand that he was on tilt a little bit.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO ($181.14)
Button ($92.31)
SB ($118.38)
BB ($50)
Hero ($100)
MP ($147.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero raises to $4, MP calls $4, 1 fold, Button calls $4, 2 folds.

Flop: ($13.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $12, MP raises to $36, Button folds, Hero calls $84 (All-In), MP calls $60.

Turn: ($205.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($205.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $205.50

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Ac (three of a kind, aces).
MP has 8d 8c (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero wins $205.50.

Chaostracize · #34 04-05-2006, 08:36 PM

Absolutely no offense... but you seem very results oriented from what I've seen.

What have you learned here?

Hmmm, sometimes I'm going to lose with AA, sometimes I'm going to win? Some flops suck with AA because an opponent has outflopped me?

Yes. Sometimes you will lose to a set. Sometimes you will win against a MILLION other kind of random ass crap. The point is, at these stakes, there are a lot of time people have random ass crap.

Both hands the boards are very draw heavy and has hit a bunch of mid range hands (hand 1) or lower range hands (hand 2) but to say that you should have folded one time and not the other makes little sense. The fact is you should be rarely folding AA postflop, and even though it is the mortal nuts preflop... IT WILL LOSE A LOT! ESPECIALLY IF IT GETS ACTION.

But asking over and over again, was it right this time, was it wrong this time, doesn't help your game at all. Because with 100 bbs per player you should be worried about getting the chips in ASAP, because when you start worrying about when you're beat you lose value in the long run.

I guess all I'm saying is that if you think you learned anything from these two hands, you're probably wrong.

Dan Bitel · #35 04-05-2006, 08:41 PM

Chaostracize,

I really like it when you come down here and teach us guys some stuff and i agree that AJ is being VERY VERY results orientated here...BUT:

at $100NL, going to felt with AA everytime postflop, is not good advice IMO and we SHOULD look at what sort of boards we can fold it on and what sort of boards we can lose a stack on to a set

Fight Club · #36 04-05-2006, 08:44 PM

Yet another example of minraise = the nuts.

Chaostracize · #37 04-05-2006, 09:55 PM

While it's true that you'll be getting action from more hands that you crush on a 542 double suited board, you are still getting action from hands that you beat on a T86 board. The problem that at these stakes if you are folding AA often you are often making bad folds. But you will lose once in a while, and it sucks, and you think "I should be folding this sometimes" and yes, sometimes you should be folding... if you see their hand face up. The problem is that you are ahead MUCH too often to make folding a viable option.

ajmargarine · #38 04-05-2006, 10:50 PM

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Absolutely no offense... but you seem very results oriented from what I've seen.

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Well, how can you not be offended by that? I'm offended but am too mellow to let it affect me in any way. I try not to be results orientated and as an "outsider" you can probably see it more than the regular SSNL'ers so I will take it under advisement.

However, if the villian in Hand #2 shows me a set, I still think a push is good. If villian in hand #1 shows me JTo after I fold, I still think folding is preferred.

Hand #1 thoughts: 4-way action means the pot is larger. A normal NL100 6-max hand would have a PFR and 2 callers, $12 pot. But here we have a $19 pot. People might mess around for $10-$25 at this level. But when a guy throws in $43, he's not playing around. Don't forget he's got 2 guys to act after him who could be in the market for a c/r. I think if he has Tx or JJ, he plays it more passively, as players at this level are wont to do. QQ is about the only thing you see here that you beat, the vast majority of the time at NL100. At higher stakes, his hand range is wider, but this is SSNL, where we play loose passives all day.

AZplaya · #39 04-05-2006, 10:53 PM

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I guess all I'm saying is that if you think you learned anything from these two hands, you're probably wrong.

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I disagree with this completely. I thought this thread generated some great discussion and found it very educational. Even though this is "only" $100, it doesn't mean that everyone is a complete donk. If the action on the flop indicates that someone can beat one pair, and we don't have a read to convince us otherwise, then we have to fold. We will never improve as players if we don't analyze hands like these two and at least consider folding as an option.

DoomSlice · #40 04-05-2006, 11:16 PM

Heh, I had the exact opposite thinking when I looked at this.

In hand one you're much more likely to be up against someone who caught top pair and is overplaying it than in hand two.

In hand two basically all you're beating is a semi-bluff, which likely still has lots of outs against you. If anything I'd be more likely to fold hand two than hand one (although I doubt I'd fold either).