Staring down a turn raise

[Aaron W.]

More Bellagio 15/30

Two limpers to me and I complete KTo from SB. BB checks and we see a flop 4 handed.

K64 with a spade flush draw. I bet and only get called by a late position player. The turn is another 4. I bet and he raises.

The late position player is the one who raised preflop in this thread. Again, he seems like a decent to solid regular player. Call down or fold?

[marchron]

Xhad Theorem says fold. You beat nothing except K9, and that'll be a chop a good deal of the time.

[Aaron W.]

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Xhad Theorem says fold. You beat nothing except K9, and that'll be a chop a good deal of the time.

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I don't think this Xhad's theorem. I thought that had something to do with someone betting/raising and then suddenly checking.

[Xhad]

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Xhad Theorem says fold. You beat nothing except K9, and that'll be a chop a good deal of the time.

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I don't think this Xhad's theorem. I thought that had something to do with someone betting/raising and then suddenly checking.

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I swear "Xhad theorem" means something different every time I've heard it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But yeah the kind of line I was talking about with that post would be like if you overlimped after some limpers and SB pfr, checkcalled that flop and then c/r the turn.

[Shillx]

Why not check the turn?

[KitCloudkicker]

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Why not check the turn?

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??

FPS and bad.

bet, and trust your judgement if he raises. if he's really that good he doesnt have a 4 here. which leaves better kings (i.e. KJ), worse kings, or air.

[Shillx]

??

Okay let's put it another way...what is the point of the turn bet? Do you really expect him to call with a hand (typically worse then KT) that he won't bet if you check to him? It seems like betting only marginalizes a hand that has some showdown value.

If he has a draw he is gonna fire in hopes that we fold. After we call the turn, he is gonna bet the river (thinking that we are also on a draw, after all a draw makes a lot of sense in our spot) in hopes that we fold. Betting any hand on the turn that isn't a clear calldown/reraise or fold is a mistake IMO.

edit: 0% chance he checks a draw on the turn

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
??

Okay let's put it another way...what is the point of the turn bet? Do you really expect him to call with a hand (typically worse then KT) that he won't bet if you check to him? It seems like betting only marginalizes a hand that has some showdown value.

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so you check and he checks his draw.

[Buzz-cp]

If I were villain, I would be suspicious of a check.

[Hielko]

Aggressive players don't check (strong) draws when they could have folding equity, at least not often. I think this is a reasonable spot to check the turn, altough betting isn't bad either (there are obviously worse hands calling).

As for calling down this raise. It depends on how aggressive your opponent is. If you think he can be semibluffing a flushdraw here or free showdown raising a 6 i would call.