52s in SB - Ugly

[Scarmiglio]

I think I botched this hand pretty badly. Maybe my vacation made me a little passive.

Hero has 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the SB at a typical lp table. 5 callers, Hero completes, BB checks.

7 to the flop (7sb) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Checked to MP who Bets, 2 callers, Hero peels, UTG calls.

5 to the turn (6bb) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Checked to MP who bets, 1 caller, Hero chickens out and calls, UTG calls.

4 to river (10bb) blank - Checked around

I think somewhere in my brain I was thinking that bottom 2 pair on a draw heavy board is very likely to get drawn out on, so I didn't want to invest 2 bets on the turn, but that is weak thinking. I think that as played not donking the river is terrible. Thoughts?

[Aces McGee]

You can't peel this flop properly if you're not going to make more than this when you spike on the turn.

-McGee

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't peel this flop properly if you're not going to make more than this when you spike on the turn.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

getting 11-1 on his call, i disagree.

but that doesn't mean he made as much as he should have...

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can't peel this flop properly if you're not going to make more than this when you spike on the turn.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

getting 11-1 on his call, i disagree.

but that doesn't mean he made as much as he should have...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nit. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

You may be right. Don't forget, however, to count the times that he hits and is still behind to a flopped set/two pair; the times he hits and his "out" gives someone a better hand; and the times he hits and gets chased down on the river.

-McGee

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can't peel this flop properly if you're not going to make more than this when you spike on the turn.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

getting 11-1 on his call, i disagree.

but that doesn't mean he made as much as he should have...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nit. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

You may be right. Don't forget, however, to count the times that he hits and is still behind to a flopped set/two pair; the times he hits and his "out" gives someone a better hand; and the times he hits and gets chased down on the river.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

sure this happens. but calling the flop doesn't commit us to calling the turn(not that you were inferring this). combine this with the fact that the bet size doubles on the next street and our implied odds if we hit on the turn are very good as are our effective odds if we don't hit.

the problem here is we hit our hand and fail to maximize value. this is what you were initially getting at, i think. if we can't raise the turn when we hit our hand, it's conceivable that we shouldn't be there in the first place. in this hand we can raise the turn, we just don't.

[Scarmiglio]

[ QUOTE ]
if we can't raise the turn when we hit our hand, it's conceivable that we shouldn't be there in the first place. in this hand we can raise the turn, we just don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rather, If we *don't* raise the turn when we hit our hand, it's conceivable that we shouldn't be there in the first place. In this hand we *should* raise the turn, we just didn't.

[Lethe]

Well, raise the turn. But you already know that. And yeah as played absolutely bet the river. What was the question again?

[Grease]

C/R the turn. Fire the river. I don't mind the flop peel, FWIW.

Firing the turn is ok too, if the original bettor can't be expected to bet again.

[TheCount212]

Please raise the turn and bet the river. This is the second- or third-best result you could have hoped for PF. But then you knew that..

[Scarmiglio]

No real question, just a reality check. Thanks.