River spot early in stars 320
 

We've played maybe 20 hands at the table but I have no stats on him so he very well might've just got here. I won a tiny pot early but have done very little so far if by some chance he's been watching. Effective stacks on the river are 1800.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG (t2530)
UTG+1 (t2490)
MP1 (t2490)
MP2 (t2470)
MP3 (t2170)
CO (t3170)
Button (t2100)
Hero (t2500)
BB (t2600)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t20, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t80.

Flop: (t220) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t180</font>, MP1 calls t180.

Turn: (t580) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t420</font>, MP1 calls t420.

River: (t1420) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>


Steve

P.S. Oh and I almost posted this hand in stages but I think the rest is super standard. Also, people are doing way too much of that lately. Comments on other streets appreciated as well though.

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

seems like a clear c/c

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

I'd bet 1000-1200. I think he most likely has an over pair &lt; QQ and can't lay it down.

edit: oops thought he raised and we reraised. The limp/call makes a 5 or 7 much more likely, but I still like a bet.

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

I could see him having a flushdraw here. i don't think a straight draw of this board makes a limp/call except 89s.

If we bet the river, he's only calling with a hand that beats us. If he missed his flush/straight draw, he's going to fold.

Just as 0evg0 said, I think this is a good spot for a check/call.

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

funny, I think it's a clear bet (1k, fold to shove). I don't think he's got a draw with the coldcall on a double paired board, and if he does he's not betting that much (esp since he has an ace a lot of the time and will check behind w/ showdown value). So, ignoring draws for that reason, he basically has a 7 or a 5 and will call/raise the river if you bet, and bet if you check (in which case betting is the same as check/calling), or he has a pair between 22 and TT, and he might fold to your bet and might call it, but will check behind on the river. So, betting is strictly superior to check-calling (when you eliminate draws), so it's just a question of how often he has a 7/5 here vs how often he calls with a smaller pair, and I think he has pairs often enough (and calls with them often enough) to make this a bet rather than a checkfold.

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet 1000-1200. I think he most likely has an over pair &lt; QQ and can't lay it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think that he thinks we would bet the flop and turn with overcards, no pair?

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet 1000-1200. I think he most likely has an over pair &lt; QQ and can't lay it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think that he thinks we would bet the flop and turn with overcards, no pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he thinks 'overpair! call!'

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

[ QUOTE ]
funny, I think it's a clear bet (1k, fold to shove). I don't think he's got a draw with the coldcall on a double paired board, and if he does he's not betting that much (esp since he has an ace a lot of the time and will check behind w/ showdown value). So, ignoring draws for that reason, he basically has a 7 or a 5 and will call/raise the river if you bet, and bet if you check (in which case betting is the same as check/calling), or he has a pair between 22 and TT, and he might fold to your bet and might call it, but will check behind on the river. So, betting is strictly superior to check-calling (when you eliminate draws), so it's just a question of how often he has a 7/5 here vs how often he calls with a smaller pair, and I think he has pairs often enough (and calls with them often enough) to make this a bet rather than a checkfold.

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i almost made this exact post, but i felt dirty saying bet-fold on the river and shoving is kinda big ... so i skipped posting.

edit: also, by 'exact post' i mean, what he said, but crammed into 1 or 2 sentenecs.

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

nothing dirty about bet-folding here... no one ever bluffs here. if they do, nh. Note to the reader: I'm not folding to you. don't try it, jackass.

Re: River spot early in stars 320
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
funny, I think it's a clear bet (1k, fold to shove). I don't think he's got a draw with the coldcall on a double paired board, and if he does he's not betting that much (esp since he has an ace a lot of the time and will check behind w/ showdown value). So, ignoring draws for that reason, he basically has a 7 or a 5 and will call/raise the river if you bet, and bet if you check (in which case betting is the same as check/calling), or he has a pair between 22 and TT, and he might fold to your bet and might call it, but will check behind on the river. So, betting is strictly superior to check-calling (when you eliminate draws), so it's just a question of how often he has a 7/5 here vs how often he calls with a smaller pair, and I think he has pairs often enough (and calls with them often enough) to make this a bet rather than a checkfold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i almost made this exact post, but i felt dirty saying bet-fold on the river and shoving is kinda big ... so i skipped posting.

edit: also, by 'exact post' i mean, what he said, but crammed into 1 or 2 sentenecs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's why I originally said check/call because bet/fold didn't sound good so I went into between.