nl100 odd metagame spot
 

Villain is on 2 of my tables, I've 4-bet him thrice this session in Button vs blind situations, he folded the first two and called the third one, making me smell a trap, so I checked behind flop and folded turn after missing completely. He has seen me 3-bet/instafold a minraise on a paired board (this was of course not the best of plays, but I am so SICK of minraises.) It is likely he thinks I'm insane, and I've opened a TON of buttons, including this one.

Additional reads is that he didn't rebuy on the other table after losing over 30bbs, and he doesn't adjust his 3-bet size oop, so he's likely not a great player. He seems a decent TAG anyhow, and hardly ever folds to my cbets. I think this is the first time he's donked at me, though.

Effective stacks are $123

Folded to me on the button, I make it $3.50 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], villain calls in the SB, BB folds.


Flop (8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) pot = $7.50
Villain bets $5.00.
Hero raises to $15.00.
Villain calls $10.00.

Ok, so he donks 2/3 pot, I don't know if he expects me to raise here (wouldn't he rather c/r a strong holding?), he thinks for about 10-15 secs and calls me.


Turn (8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) pot = $37.50
Villain bets $20.00.

Again, why not c/r if he's strong? Does he really want me to shove here?

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

Fast playing is the new slow playing.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

I really hate this. Fair enough stealing but once he's called your steal I'd need to hit a flop to carry on here. If you are stealing with 32 then there can't be any hands you aren't stealing with so villian knows you are fos most of the time. Coupled with your read of him not folding your cbets just makes this even worse.

Continuing this far is pure spew imo

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

I had no plan of c-betting that board, though when someone donks into me like that I tend to raise close to always.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

maybe that's why he donked into you then...

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

Which is why this thread exists...

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

Meh I still think it's really bad.

You said yourself he thinks your insane, that's going to make him more likely to make a stand with a weaker holding. This is great when you've got a hand but you don't.

If you are happy with raising the flop then fine but he's donked again on the turn ffs just fold.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

i suggest you fold 23o pre even when you are on the button. Button doesn't mean you can abuse it.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

I'm pretty torn about what I really think of my play in this hand, might be really bad, might not.

I do agree that he should be much more likely to take a stand with a weaker holding against me, question is if he's really going to felt something like JJ/TT here or what else he could do this with. This I'm also torn about.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

I usually fold it, though I was bored and rarely got 3-bet from the blinds.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

Fold preflop.

As played, fold flop.

As played, fold turn.

The board is terrible for you. It hits his range hard. If you want to take a stab at the pot on the flop, which is a really bad idea, your raise is hopelessly insufficient to get the job done, especially on a board with drawing opportunities like that one.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

My logic might be flawed, but I was expecting him to fold the weaker part of his donking range and 3-bet the stronger part here regardless of my raise being a bit small.

Assuming we do make this perhaps not too brilliant raise to being with, how much should we make it?

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

hahahahhahahaahaha

op is a typo rite?

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming we do make this perhaps not too brilliant raise to being with, how much should we make it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot, or at least $20.

This is not what you should be focussing on, though.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

Well, I'll conclude that I misplayed this hand partly because of FPS and partly overthinking. All streets are pretty trivial folds (well at this table I didn't hate raising atc pf on the button), and I'd like to thank everyone that contributed to this thread anyway.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

I raise donkbetters almost 100% the first time they do it -UNLESS- the board is drawy like it is here. Cause In my experience the donks mean either a) nuts b) draw c) weak hand he has no idea what to do with (middle pocketpair, middle pair on board etc, two overs). I'll usually raise them on any dry board and make a note if he donk+folded or donk+called and elaborate more on the note if we get to SD. In this spot I'd just let him have it since he can call w/ any J,T and we don't even have an overcard draw.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

Yeah I'll start to think more about board texture before I raise donkbets in the future. I think you are spot on.

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Button doesn't mean you can abuse it.

[/ QUOTE ]

In SSNL the whole purpose of the button being there is for me to shamelessly abuse it.

I'm still folding 23o though especially if you've been getting looked up a touch more often

Re: nl100 odd metagame spot
 

Here's my tuppence worth. If you get involved in situations like this frequently then maybe you focus too much on winning pots when you should focus on maximising expectation.
In this particular spot, and given your history with this opponent, maximising your expectation equates to bailing out sooner rather than later.