Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

Haven't read any responses yet because I want to see if what I think is right:

1. Fold preflop.
2. If you plan on calling the flop bet, bet out yourself instead.
3. You're finished on the turn, check/fold.

-The problem with completing the blinds is you end up posting hands like this [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
-The problem with checking and calling the turn is you get no information on your opponent. Does he have a pair? In this case even check raising to ~t180 would be better. But you don't have many chips to work with, so betting 3/4 the pot on your draw and folding to a raise is a better option.
-You have to fold the turn. You don't have odds on a 5-1 draw. And you're not ahead as often as you wish you were.

Ok now lets see how close I was.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

[ QUOTE ]
I made a comment abou 3:1 in the pot but didn't mean that that was the most important part. The implied odds are the reason to stay in this for t80 are they not?

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The pot odds are a wash here. You're getting odds to take another card (unless someone behind you c/r's). The thing I don't like is that when that third diamond hits, it's hard to get paid off. The gutshot is the best, and you don't know if a pair is good. Low-limit SNG players like to be scared of the obvious. On the other hand, you have a lot of folding equity when you semi-bluff here. I think you're better off relying on that to make money on this hand rather than first hitting you hand and then trying to get paid for it.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

I agree with Slim Pickens and would check-raise this flop all-in, with both draws, and possibility of the jacks being outs as well, you have at least 12 outs and possibly 15, so we'll call it 13 for argument's sake. Of course I don't know how good your FE will be against a typical $11 donk with this line, so take it with a pinch of salt.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

On the plus side, they'll never expect a check-raise all-in with a draw. There's a decent chance they'll fold a better hand purely out of confusion.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I made a comment abou 3:1 in the pot but didn't mean that that was the most important part. The implied odds are the reason to stay in this for t80 are they not?

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot odds are a wash here. You're getting odds to take another card (unless someone behind you c/r's). The thing I don't like is that when that third diamond hits, it's hard to get paid off. The gutshot is the best, and you don't know if a pair is good. Low-limit SNG players like to be scared of the obvious. On the other hand, you have a lot of folding equity when you semi-bluff here. I think you're better off relying on that to make money on this hand rather than first hitting you hand and then trying to get paid for it.

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I think you're talking about a semi-bluff leading out on the turn right? If this is the case, I can see how this might be the best play, my problem is the amount to semi bluff, I'm guessing t200 or so, but in that case I think more is being put into the pot that needs to be.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

No he's on about semi bluffing all in on the flop, I believe. Or at least, an amount big enough that you're committed on the turn, or give the impression of being. I don't like to do that less than all-in OOP though and it reduces FE a little, especially against a non-thinking $11 muppet.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

Oh I see.

I wouldn't do that because I'm a wuss, but maybe that would be best.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

Thank you everyone for your kind welcome to your forum and your thought-provoking responses.

I have very little NL experience, so I'm just trying to go with what poker knowledge I have.

Right now, I think I like the call flop and donk turn line. On a board like that, I do think you would less frequently see a raise, and would be able to set the price for your draw. I like that thought.

I also considered taking the lead on the flop with a c/r, but my understanding has been that the 10s are something like my .5/1 lhe world, and I'm not going to see much folding of top pair and the like.

I'm just learning about the differences in EP play compared to later play, so I wasn't really sure how active to get in this hand.

Thanks again,

QTip


Thanks again.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

Just want to make sure this gets through, because I didn't see enough people agreeing with this:
Preflop: Complete. Every time.
Flop: First check was fine, with button's bet I sometimes CR because it really looks like a position steal, but call is fine too (maybe at the 11s call is optimal). No way should you ever fold this.
Turn: Check is ok, but I like a smallish bet. The bottom could easily have nothing here and fold. If he does have something, often he will just call this. If he raises, well you know how to work out odds.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Slim Pickens and would check-raise this flop all-in, with both draws, and possibility of the jacks being outs as well, you have at least 12 outs and possibly 15, so we'll call it 13 for argument's sake. Of course I don't know how good your FE will be against a typical $11 donk with this line, so take it with a pinch of salt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who likes the C/R all-in on the flop. So... the guy made some puss bet on the flop. I'd say 3/4 of the time, you take down the pot with your C/R, 1/4 of the time you get called with a ton of outs. If you're going to play this hand, play it aggressively, dammit! On an 11, his flop bet means... two cards. Blow him away with your C/R and move on.