Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

i dont see what our hand range equities have to do with our river play??

the situation is he is calling wtih a pair since he is loose passive, and folding any draws he missed, that we already beat

Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

I thought about this after I created the other thread when someone made the statement of pulling off the "bad bluff". However, if the guy is loose and passive is he ever folding a pair here?

Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont see what our hand range equities have to do with our river play??

the situation is he is calling wtih a pair since he is loose passive, and folding any draws he missed, that we already beat

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a long term ev situation. If he calls us every time in this situation with a small pair he will have negative ev. He won't win the 6.25 bet pot often enough to make up for his losses if we only bet it 40%.

Of course, if we know that he will always call with any pair I think the river bet is bad as there are exactly three hands that beat us that might fold: QJ, QT, and Q9. And I can't think of any worse hands that might call.

Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

sure, him calling will have a negative ev longrun for him because we will be valuebetting even 7s or 8s on this board. lp's are supposed to make -ev plays though, lets not help him.

Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont see what our hand range equities have to do with our river play??

the situation is he is calling wtih a pair since he is loose passive, and folding any draws he missed, that we already beat

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a long term ev situation. If he calls us every time in this situation with a small pair he will have negative ev. He won't win the 6.25 bet pot often enough to make up for his losses if we only bet it 40%.

Of course, if we know that he will always call with any pair I think the river bet is bad as there are exactly three hands that beat us that might fold: QJ, QT, and Q9. And I can't think of any worse hands that might call.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know what you are thinking, but I don't think that you can get this complex against a loose passive player. Against a tight-agressive player this play would be better as it will widen their river calling range for future hands. I'd still rather make this type of play with a hand like 65 or T9, where I'd have a chance to knock out a better hand like JT or a missed Q high flush draw.

Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

emersons post is interesting. i dont know what to make of it.

Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

i think it has merit against a thinking opponent rather than a loose passive.

it's also possible that us betting and him calling are -ev for both parties, correct?

Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

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emersons post is interesting. i dont know what to make of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is possible that this poker stove run for 76 of diamonds lead me to some incorrect conclusions about other possible holdings. For reasons I don't understand, pocket sixes, and other small pocket pairs, have a substantially bigger equity, and thus stronger case for calling, than does the pair of sevens on the busted diamond draw that I examined.

Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

[ QUOTE ]


It is possible that this poker stove run for 76 of diamonds lead me to some incorrect conclusions about other possible holdings. For reasons I don't understand, pocket sixes, and other small pocket pairs, have a substantially bigger equity, and thus stronger case for calling, than does the pair of sevens on the busted diamond draw that I examined.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a little glitch. Even pocket queens only have 41.541% equity against the Stox button open raising range. On boards that have AK and three rags, bluffing on the river about 38% of the time should make it unprofitable for any one pair hand to call (less than kings).

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,986 games 0.005 secs 397,200 games/sec

Board: 8d 7s 2d Kh Ac
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.459% 58.31% 00.15% 1158 3.00 { 22+, A2s+, K5s+, Q5s+, J7s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, A4o+, K7o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
Hand 1: 41.541% 41.39% 00.15% 822 3.00 { QQ }


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Re: Quiz#20 Same Concept
 

[ QUOTE ]
ace is a good card

[/ QUOTE ]

yea. i think stox played this well.