Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

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I'd call the turn for anything t175 or lower. You've probably gained a few outs or may have the best hand already, but your implied odds are worse out OOP on the river. If you hit the river, You'd probably have to push which (if the villain is decent will see that you probably it a flush..although that's not likely in the $11s and might be called by high pair) but you can't check and hope for another bet.



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So you're already down to 665 chips after calling the flop bet by the button, and you are considering calling up to 175 more in check/calling the turn which takes you down to less than 500 chips. What is the plan for the river?

I totally disagree with this line.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

you really wouldn't take that t80 chance? He's gettin almost 3:1 on his call if no one else calls.

I understand the advantage of have 80 more chips in L3 or L4 and on, but the chance to get another t500 or more so early on without much risk I think is a great opportunity.

His 13 outs is almost definitely good against just the villain although maybe not against another caller or so.

I just think that that opportunity is just too much to pass up for t80.

Maybe I'm wrong..I haven't been playing these nearly as long as you have and the $11s are the only ones I've played a lot?

I'm very confused as usual [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

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Fold PF. It can only cause trouble when you see a flop with that hand. I'm also a former limit player and it took me a lot of money to unlearn the value of draws. The quicker you unlearn, the better IMHO.



Onaflag..........

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This would be a horrible preflop fold. He's getting a billion to one for a billionth of his stack.

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Hmmm.....I wouldn't call it horrible at all and your math is a tad off. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I don't see a problem completing and hoping for a monster.

Completing with the intention of seeing a draw through can and often will deplete your stack enough that you'll think twice about getting married to a draw again under these conditions.

I'm still folding and if that's a tad too tight, that's fine. It could probably swing either way anyway.

Onaflag...........

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

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I'd call the turn for anything t175 or lower. You've probably gained a few outs or may have the best hand already, but your implied odds are worse out OOP on the river. If you hit the river, You'd probably have to push which (if the villain is decent will see that you probably it a flush..although that's not likely in the $11s and might be called by high pair) but you can't check and hope for another bet.



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So you're already down to 665 chips after calling the flop bet by the button, and you are considering calling up to 175 more in check/calling the turn which takes you down to less than 500 chips. What is the plan for the river?

I totally disagree with this line.

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OK i'm going to stop he and say that I am also somewhat new to these games, but I Still think that the flop call is the right move.

At the higher buy-ins I wouldn't suggest check/calling up to t175 on the turn and probably not even the t80 on the flop, but I think it is the best move in the $11s since a check/raise or lead bet might be called by low pair and your push on a hit might be called by a mid or high pair.

I think that on average at the end of this hand you are down to t500 about 60% of the time or up to t1200-t1600 about 40%. I agree that t300 lost is worth more than t300 won, but there is a lot to gain from this hand and I think it's too much to give up for t80 on the flop

The turn call I think its much more debatable and might suggest lowing that call threshhold to t150 or lower, but still think it's callable

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

I would put a small donkbet in here, it usually gets called (as opposed to raised) and you can price yourself in to see the river cheaply. I don't consider your pair good but your draw very strong and thus I don't particularly want to fold it.

Preflop: fine
Flop: fine

You're good at poker in general so you know why both of those are correct.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

Look, just don't play it like this.

<font color="white"> Just messing with you curtains. </font>

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

I don't think you going to make a lot of money long term by calling away your FE on draws. I like Slim Pickens line:

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A big difference between NL SNG's and limit ring is that your implied odds will dictate everything here whereas you're really looking more at pot odds in limit ring.

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Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

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I usually fold this pf with that many callers. I may play along in levels 1 or 2 if the field is limited to one limper.

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You're completely backwards on this!

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

I know.

Re: ($10) I get in trouble from the sb
 

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I don't think you going to make a lot of money long term by calling away your FE on draws. I like Slim Pickens line:

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A big difference between NL SNG's and limit ring is that your implied odds will dictate everything here whereas you're really looking more at pot odds in limit ring.

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I made a comment abou 3:1 in the pot but didn't mean that that was the most important part. The implied odds are the reason to stay in this for t80 are they not?