Is there anything in the world more expensive than internet poker?

[Ben79]

You can pay as much $5,000 per month to play cash games on the internet. Here's the math:

$3 rake per pot X 1/10th person X 50 hands per hour X 8 tables at a time X 40 hours per week = $4800.00 per month

If you play $500 SNG's, 50 per day X 20 days per month, you are paying $30,000.00 per month in juice! Here's the math:

$30 Fee X 50 SNGs X 20 days per month=$30,000.00

Here's a realistic example, of a non-pro internet poker player. 2 tables a night, for 4 hours, 4 nights a week:

$15 per hour per table X 2 tables X 4 hour X 4 nights =$480 a week.

And 90% of you are playing low limits. You are risking $30 to win $27 in $60 pots. 5% of every pot is being taken. This guarantees, it is a mathematical certainty, virtually all low limit players lose all their $$$. Your edge is not larger than 5% on average.

Here's a very clear example the effect of rake in low limit games. There are 10 players at the table each with $100 playing $3-$6 limit holdem. We'll assume every pot is raked the max of $3. In one hour the house has raked away $150. (50 hands per hourX$3)In 6 hours the house will have raked away $900. Do you see? Collectively, those 10 players have $100 left. THE HOUSE IS GETTING ALLLLLLL THE $$$$$.


This is the best business model and also the biggest fleecing of the masses ever. Gambling truly is a tax on dumb people. There is no reason we should pay this amount of $$$ or anywhere near it. WAKE UP, people!! Poker should be a near even sum game, a 3rd party shouldnt be charging us a fortune to play cards against one another. IT SHOULD BE A NEAR EVEN SUM GAME, we can all enjoy.

I AM EMPLORE EVERYONE TO SIGNUP AT A NO RAKE SITE IMMEDIATELY, AND TELL EVERY SINGLE INTERNET POKER PLAYER YOU KNOW TO DO THE SAME. It is time we brought down the cost of poker. The fleecing of poker players cant stand.

[LionelHutz00]

if you think it's a rip-off, don't play poker.

[Ben79]

I have no idea why you or anyone would defend the cost of internet poker. why would you chime in with:

"if you think it's a rip-off, don't play poker.
"

My central thesis on life is: EVERYONE IS DUMB. Except all the high limit players, DS, EM, and MM. And the people that own and run these companies. And Bill Gates. HAHA

[hazillow]

[ QUOTE ]
You can pay as much $5,000 per month to play cash games on the internet. Here's the math:

$3 rake per pot X 1/10th person X 50 hands per hour X 8 tables at a time X 40 hours per week = $4800.00 per month

If you play $500 SNG's, 50 per day X 20 days per month, you are paying $30,000.00 per month in juice! Here's the math:

$30 Fee X 50 SNGs X 20 days per month=$30,000.00

Here's a realistic example, of a non-pro internet poker player. 2 tables a night, for 4 hours, 4 nights a week:

$15 per hour per table X 2 tables X 4 hour X 4 nights =$480 a week.

And 90% of you are playing low limits. You are risking $30 to win $27 in $60 pots. 5% of every pot is being taken. This guarantees, it is a mathematical certainty, virtually all low limit players lose all their $$$. Your edge is not larger than 5% on average.

Here's a very clear example the effect of rake in low limit games. There are 10 players at the table each with $100 playing $3-$6 limit holdem. We'll assume every pot is raked the max of $3. In one hour the house has raked away $150. (50 hands per hourX$3)In 6 hours the house will have raked away $900. Do you see? Collectively, those 10 players have $100 left. THE HOUSE IS GETTING ALLLLLLL THE $$$$$.


This is the best business model and also the biggest fleecing of the masses ever. Gambling truly is a tax on dumb people. There is no reason we should pay this amount of $$$ or anywhere near it. WAKE UP, people!! Poker should be a near even sum game, a 3rd party shouldnt be charging us a fortune to play cards against one another. IT SHOULD BE A NEAR EVEN SUM GAME, we can all enjoy.

I AM EMPLORE EVERYONE TO SIGNUP AT A NO RAKE SITE IMMEDIATELY, AND TELL EVERY SINGLE INTERNET POKER PLAYER YOU KNOW TO DO THE SAME. It is time we brought down the cost of poker. The fleecing of poker players cant stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

your low-limit assessment is simplistic. you assumed every pot was raked 3 dollars and you assumed that the same people would be there the whole time. neither would ever be the case. 3 dollars is the max rake.

i have made quite a bit of money at 2/4 and 3/6 over the year. i guess you'll just have to assume i'm telling the truth.

[Ben79]

Of course I made assumptions. And I know you can win low limits if the players are really bad and pay off on every street, when you have like the nutz. But thats not my point. The absurd cost to play poker is.

Risking $10 to win $9 in $20 pots, etc, guarantees 99% of people lose every cent they have in their account.

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a very clear example the effect of rake in low limit games. There are 10 players at the table each with $100 playing $3-$6 limit holdem. We'll assume every pot is raked the max of $3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhhh, wouldn't that mean every pot was at least $300? How often do you see pots that are 50 big bets in a limit game, never mind games where that's the norm?

Nice use of scare math.

[Python49]

Even if he maxed out the mathematical examples, he still has a point. I pay about 6-8k a month in rake. There are other high limit players paying close to 18k a month in rake. That's still very expensive throughout the year.

[Nut4Dawgs]

It's a Cost of Doing Business. You don't like it, find another business. Simple. Can't you understand that? Jeeze, Louise.

What's your annual net? What percentage of your net are your expenses (rake, etc.)? Can you do better in some other area? Go there. Do that. Be happy.

Does your mom know you're playing online poker? Go cry on her shoulder. Maybe she'll give you some cookies and milk. And then you can take a nap.

Finish high school. Go to college. Graduate with honors and get a great job. Make lots of money. Invest in your own poker site and run it on the cheap. Leave lots of money on the table. Make people happy. Feel good about yourself and become famous.

[TylerD]

You hate paying rake, we get it. Do you have to post about it every few days?

[tomahawk]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a Cost of Doing Business. You don't like it, find another business. Simple. Can't you understand that? Jeeze, Louise.

What's your annual net? What percentage of your net are your expenses (rake, etc.)? Can you do better in some other area? Go there. Do that. Be happy.

Does your mom know you're playing online poker? Go cry on her shoulder. Maybe she'll give you some cookies and milk. And then you can take a nap.

Finish high school. Go to college. Graduate with honors and get a great job. Make lots of money. Invest in your own poker site and run it on the cheap. Leave lots of money on the table. Make people happy. Feel good about yourself and become famous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you probably make some good money, and you don't want to change a winning recipe and all; I do too right now.

I can't, however, help but think about all the extra money I'd make if the sites had reasonable rake-rates. The rake number in my pokertracker for the previous year is really horrible to behold, and even though i make enough, I can see that this number is putting alot of players in the red who could have been small winners. This would have been good for the games, no doubt.

Also, I think it's really weird how people here frequently react to questions about rake with so much anger and contempt, like the people asking questions are labeled "unwanted troublemakers" or something. Why is this? Do people really want the rake to be this high? I understand concerns about the sites having your money and safety issues with them being poorer, but come on, if we force them to make the rake one 4th or 3rd of what it is the only thing that's gonna change is just that. The sites will still be filthy rich, and all the players will have improved results overnight no matter their skill level. It can only be a good thing, and people can make it happen if we don't act like sheep.

God, I hope they don't flip the switch on me now [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]