God and Free Will

[guesswest]

This just came up on another thread....

Assuming an omni3 (omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent) god created you, he must know all the choices you will make in your lifetime. So it seems those choices will be made by god, not yourself.

Is it possible to reconcile this god with the idea of free will? For theists and non-theists alike.

[spoohunter]

Nope.

The important thing is not 'who' makes the decisions but that their are in fact no decisions to be made.

[madnak]

I think so. It's hard for us to understand because our predictions are based on causal understanding. Obviously God's wouldn't be.

[bunny]

Having suggested you start this thread, this is going to be rude....But I'll have to answer tomorrow. Obviously, I think there is a way to reconcile free will with an omniscient creator (an internally consistent one, that is - not a persuasive one). Sorry to bail - my fiancee just got home and doesnt have a lot of respect for the philosophical debate vs quality time argument [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[guesswest]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Is all good - I'm not specifically harassing you, is directed at anyone who's interested.

[Piers]

Non theists have no problem, as the initial assumption of an omni3 God is invalid, any problems with the consequences of this assumption are a non-issue.

The Omni3 assumptions are confusing and lead to logical problems depending on how they are defined.

It is much clearer to avoid words like omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and instead just say what the being can are can’t do. Rather than letting confusing ambiguous potentially logically inconstant words that you don’t really understand do the work for you.

[guesswest]

Piers - You don't have to accept that such a god exists to address the issue of whether these two things are compatible. It's not going to prove god either way. I just thought it was an interesting question on it's own terms.

As far as definitions go, I'd say the only point on which people ever disagree as to the meaning of the omnis is with regard to whether these attributes should be constrained by logic. I'm going to suggest the answer to that should be 'yes' here - not because I'm convinced it's so, but because it's impossible to discuss without that assumption. Beyond that, I think they're self explanatory.

[spoohunter]

What is confusing about ALL POWERFUL and ALL KNOWING? Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
What is confusing about ALL POWERFUL and ALL KNOWING? Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, Putting it in bold works. Its cleared that one up.

chez

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
What is confusing about ALL POWERFUL and ALL KNOWING? Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, would I have the power to change my mind?

luckyme