Internet Poker... doomed from Day 1

[PlayaHata]

With the insurgrence of Poker Bots such as WinHoldem, I am writing this post as I have come to the conclusion that Internet poker has been doomed since day 1. Moving the game from the felt tables of casino's to the internet was where it all went wrong. The problem is human nature, we are evil, cunning beings that will do anything for personal gain.

From the beginning of internet poker, people have been devising ways of beating the system. From the Card Mapper fiasco at Planet Poker, to Multi Accounts in MTT, to Team Bots Colluding through a 3rd party program on ALL major poker sites. Humans have found a way to alter and 'fix' the greatest card game in history without the need of skill that some spend years to develop. Why spend years perfecting your game when there are methods to guarantee a few thousand dollars every week?

Even programs like Poker Traker and Party Miner are just as unethical in my mind as a card mapper or poker bot. Why you might ask? Because not everyone involved in these games has the same access to these programs as you do. (I do not use ANY program) Data mining is just as evil as poker bots, IMO, because that information would not be avilable to you if you did not have a BOT collect the data for you! As well as poker tracker, you would not have that information readily available if that BOT did not collect it and transfer it to your interface. Well, you might say that these programs are readily available to anyone who googles the word poker program, and anyone can purchase it. But, when one googles poker program, one can find links to card mappers, poker bots, data trackers, and so on. What makes poker tracker ethical and poker bots unethical? What makes data mining unethical and colluding unethical? There is no difference whatsoever. If you brought a device into a casino and sat at a poker table collecting information on other players on bet amounts, frequency of aggression, and so on, I guarantee that device would be confiscated or you would be escorted out of the casino. If you brought in a device that could tell you what Player A or B does in given situations because you 'recorded' his actions in a previous hand that you were not involved in, the same outcome would occur. Having ANY device that is not available through the poker client and available to EVERY player is UNETHICAL. It is NOT a part of POKER, and the fact that poker tracker has come hand in hand with downloading a poker program is ludicris. Every player should be given the cards in front of them and the chips that they are willing to wager. THAT IS ALL. Using ANY outside device is unethical, IMHO.

The world of internet poker has made a turn for the worse. I never expressed my hatred of Poker TRacker or Data Mining until now, because people do not see the bigger picture. Internet poker, due to the acceptance of such foreign devices such as Tracker or Miner, is becoming more and more a computer based game and not a human based game. Soon, every internet player will be arming themselves with every possible device from card mappers, to bots, to trackers, to miners. If we do not take a stand somewhere, we can only allow ALL devices to be used. We must ban all devices or allow all of them to be used.

That is just my 2 cents. After this month, i will be withdrawing all my money from accounts and become a B&M player only. Good luck to all, and flame away if you must. But that is my opinion, and I hope I have made some people realize my point.

Playa

[ChoicestHops]

[ QUOTE ]
What makes poker tracker ethical and poker bots unethical?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am the one sitting in front on my computer deciding on what the best appropriate action to be taken place from what my PT is displaying to me.

On the other hand, the bot user is out of his house enjoying the 24/7 money he is obtaining by doing absolutely nothing.

[primetimenole]

Your screen name is fitting.

[tom10167]

So is location

[PlayaHata]

I would like to add that I am a internet player of 2 years.
Up until last week, I had never once felt that I had been cheated or played against someone who had an unequal advantage.
After visiting the WinHoldem site, reading the various posts about bots, and reading articles on internet poker bots and programs, my opinion has changed.
I am not going to divulge into the situation, but for the first time in 2 years, I knew something was up. I even posted last week in the SSNL whether anyone agreed with me. They all assured me that it was variance and no one can cheat, and if they could they would be cheating at higher levels. Well after today, I am 99% sure that at least 3 people at the table I was playing at were colluding through winHoldem. I could care less if anyone believes me or not.

[PlayaHata]

but because you have that device to give you an altered edge in decision making, you are able to come at your course of action in a more simple fashion. that in itself is just as unethical as having some program make the decsiion for you.

[heater]

[ QUOTE ]
that in itself is just as unethical

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[BigBluffer]

Assuming, for the moment, that you're not trolling, I'll make one observation:

[ QUOTE ]
If you brought a device into a casino and sat at a poker table collecting information on other players on bet amounts, frequency of aggression, and so on, I guarantee that device would be confiscated or you would be escorted out of the casino. If you brought in a device that could tell you what Player A or B does in given situations because you 'recorded' his actions in a previous hand that you were not involved in, the same outcome would occur.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do bring such a device into the B&M poker room every time you go there to play. So does every other player. It's called Your Brain.

Does the fact that some players have trained themselves to use Their Brain more efficiently than others, at least at the task of playing poker, give them an unfair advantage? I think your answer to that would be, "no." The player is simply making better (legal and ethical) use of whatever resources are available to him.

So far, I don't believe anyone has been barred from a Poker Room for using his brain. Sadly, the same cannot be said about the blackjack tables.

I believe, and I'm sure most others here do too, that a player using PokerTracker is simply making better (legal and ethical) use of the resources that are available to him than the player who chooses not to use Poker Tracker.

[davehwm]

I certainly believe that a program that does calculations that are impossible for humans to do, based on the current situation at the table, are unethical.

And if this includes GT+, PAHUD, whatever, then so be it.

[HRFats]

I've never played poker in a B&M casino but I imagine that if I brought in a notebook and started taking player notes I might get escorted from the building. Yet poker sites all have player note capabilities. These sites must be unethical!