Turning Stone 5/10 No Max: Hooks

[GTL]

Hand was played at T Stone against a villain that I had a few reads on. The game is 5-10 blinds with no max and a minimum bring in of 20 dollars.

The reads: Villain is fairly ABC. I have seen him play big pots with one pair. Also, he has been talking about his hands, and on several occasions he has check called (when oop) and flat called with flush draws, flush and straight draws, and gut shot straight draws. I have yet to see him make a semi bluff on the flop with a draw. For the most part he raises on the flop with top pair, calls flop with a draw and then folds turn if he misses his draw.

He is an older guy (think doctor or lawyer with money to spare but still playing the game seriously even though hes not too good). Villain has been chatting with me as a buddy of mine who is quite good was in the game with him earlier. I believe that he thinks I'm a good player and he knows that I'm not afraid to move my chips. I have played 2 pots with him HU each one getting HU by the turn. Each one ended with me betting and him laying down on the turn after calling a flop bet.

The hand: Villain has approx 2500 in front of him, Hero covers.

Hero is dealt J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and brings it in for 20, 2 calls, Villain calls in the CO, Button calls, BB calls.

(120) Flop: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets 100, 2 folds, Villain makes it 300 to go, folded to Hero who calls.

(720) Turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero bets 500, Villain makes it 2100 and is all in, Hero?

My reads on the betting. I was nearly 99 percent sure that villain did not raise the flop with a flush draw. My read on him not semi bluffing was strong. I hadn't seen him show down any suited connectors but it was certainly possible that he had 2 pair or a set. I was also fairly sure that he didn't have deuces as he was playing fairly tight preflop with 1 exception, he was coming in cheap with a lot of aces suited or unsuited. On the flop I put him on a pair of 8s or possibly a pair of sevens, with hands like A8 or A7, two pair, a set, and possibly a bluff with air even though that was highly unlikely.

My read on his turn raise was that he wanted to look strong. I was 99% sure that he did not have a flush. I was having trouble trying to figure out exactly why he wanted to look strong but it certainly felt like he wanted to take it down right there. I think with 2 pair he might very well have wanted to take it down but I had seen him play one set and he made smaller raises and got payed. When he pushed all in he counted his chips and then said "I guess I'm all in." I read it for a reverse tell. I felt like he was acting weak to make me think he was strong.

The turn was a huge card for me, and I felt like if I put him on two pair I was getting the right odds to call. It was also possible he was on air but very unlikely.

Comments on all streets are appreciated. I'll post the results in a few days.

[JMP300z]

Why did you bring it in for 20?

Only you can tell us how often you think he has "1 pair" although I cant imagine him doing this w/ 8x. Maybe As 8x?

I dont really like your turn lead especially if youre going to be like "WTF" when he raises you.

-JP

[GTL]

I brought it in for 20 because you can't limp at this table. 20 is basically limping in. I lead the turn because my hand had improved so much with the turn card. I feel like I also made a mistake by not reraising on the flop. Also villain had a tendency to just call when the board got scary, so I felt that if I showed strength on the turn I might be able to take it away from two pair or a set on the river.

The percentages I had in my head were 60-75 percent on two pair. 10-15 percent on a set. 10-15 percent for 1 pair with the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Less than 5 percent with air.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
I brought it in for 20 because you can't limp at this table. 20 is basically limping in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, why are you limping instead of making it ~$40?

[ QUOTE ]
The percentages I had in my head were 60-75 percent on two pair. 10-15 percent on a set. 10-15 percent for 1 pair with the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Less than 5 percent with air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then what's the problem? This might be the easiest fold ever. If you tell us you ended up calling, then you're lying about your read or it's a thinly veiled brag post. If this is truly your read it's a standard muck and move on.

[GTL]

Why do you say this is a standard muck with that read? I have to call 1600 for a pot that has 3200 in it. against 2 pair i'm 43% to win. What percentage of the time would he have to be on two pair for you to call here? I can't edit my above post either, but the percentages I gave were wrong. I had 2 pair at 60 to 70 percent. A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8, or some other 1 pair combo 15-20 percent. A set 5 percent, and air 5-10 percent. The only reason I had the set so low is because I read him as weak.

[palman]

Well when you make a read that strong, you go with it.

[okayplayer]

I would bring it in for $70 to $80 PF (this is basically 10/20). I prefer a check call on the turn as opposed to the lead. You have a drawing hand, and he has already made his, so he will put you all in when you bet. I don't like playing passively, but it seems like you bet to price yourself in for an all in call on the turn. As played, with his hand ranges, call.

Also, you say that he won't limp 22 , but he will limp any ace? That sounds a little ridiculous. I think a set is very clearly in his range, but I too would tend to weight his avg towards 2 pair. I think he has air he much less than what you think.

[luckychewy]

I'm fairly sure I know which man you're talking about, I might know you too if you give a small description even though I don't see the game much I watched it two weeks in a row and know most of the players there. Anyway, if you feel so strongly he doesn't have a flush the only other possible hands seem to be 77, 88, 99, MAYBE TT, or As8/As7(since you said he won't raise flop with a draw). One of the things I get mad at myself most for in NLH is not making a call when I believe I have the best hand, even though it seems unlikely given how strong he played it, if you aren't trusting your instincts you shouldn't be playing. Hope this helps, good luck.
-Andrew

[GTL]

Luckychewy, I only played friday night (St. Patty's Day). It was my first trip to T-Stone and my first time playing live. I posted the hand just to find out if people call there if they believe they are against 2 pair. I also wanted to know if people bet more on the turn if they think they are against two pair so there is no question on the call or if they check call. I'm fairly new to poker and not a huge number cruncher. When I played the hand I thought it was a bad call if I had him on two pair. But when I thought about it later, I changed my mind and thought that it was an ok play to call there if I had him on two pair.

The reason I gave him a little credit for air is the fact that we were chatting it up a little bit and that he had folded to my bets in the last few hands we had played. His all in bet just really felt weak to me.

To be quite honest, I really wasn't playing all that well. I posted the hand because it was my first time playing live and I thought that I was in a fairly interesting hand.

okay player, your logic on the 22 seems very reasonable to me. I'm sure that he does limp 22 in retrospect, but for some reason I didn't think he would.

Also, I'm a sucker for big pots. I bet the turn with the intention of pushing the river if called so in my mind I was commited to this pot. I know this is probably not the best way to think but I'm just being honest.

Again, I think I misplayed the hand. I agree that I should have raised preflop. Any input on my flop play would also be appreciated.

Lucky, I did feel like I might have the best hand. It was weird. Logically I thought he must have two pair. But my instincts said call. I'm not a pro by any means, just a recreational player trying to improve.

[luckychewy]

I have more respect for you calling if your instincts told you too than folding even though it definatly seems like he has you beat. Eager to see these results [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

-Andrew