KK v LAG, ugly board

[Abramovic]

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $41.00
<font color="black">Hero (BB): $50.00</font>
UTG: $82.25
CO: $65.50
BTN: $42.00

<font color="black">Reads: </font><font color="blue">Villain is fairly LAG, runs about 30/10/3</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG calls $0.50, CO folds, BTN calls $0.50, <font color="red">SB raises to $3.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $9.00</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $6.00

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($19) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero checks

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($19) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $11.00</font>, Hero calls $11.00

<font color="black">River:</font> ($41) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets all-in for $21.00</font>, Hero folds

Pot Size: $62.00

[fsista]

As played fold turn, I bet flop for 12$ and then just shut down if I don't get the Kd on the turn.

[Abramovic]

Are you bluffing or value betting when you bet flop?

[hra146]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you bluffing or value betting when you bet flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

you are cbetting


Its true that you shouldnt get agressive in WA/WB situations, but if you say he is LAGish you NEEED to cbet here.

Essentially bluffing, but unless hes completely retarded he isnt gonna make a move without a hand on that flop (if you cbet).

By checking you make it so unbelievably clear what you have and even the worst opponents will realize that.

[Abramovic]

Is he going to bluff two streets with a worse hand then?

[hagbard celine]

you mean after you check the flop? If he's certain that you're scared of that flop then yes.

[hra146]

[ QUOTE ]
Is he going to bluff two streets with a worse hand then?

[/ QUOTE ]

possible. QQ and JJ might take that line. (although JJ isnt a worse hand by the river)


the point is that you just dont want to be in this spot in the first place.

Those 11$ you called in the dark and still lost the pot would be much better invested in a cbet. Think about it, if you are planning to call this kind of bet (hoping he gives up on the river) at some point, why not bet it yourself earlier?

There will be enough retarded QQs and JJs calling, you wont give a free cards to PPs that have a club in it AND you are prefectly clear on how to act on later streets.


A cbet is so useful here


edit: any his range is so much wider than QQ JJ AK here. A 30 vpip guy will often take a flop with JTs here. If I were one of these guys, Id definitely try to take this flop away from you on turn + river

[hagbard celine]

hra makes the perfect point about a cbet here.

if you're prepared to check behind on flop, and then call $11 on the turn, why not bet the $11 yourself on the flop, and put him in the position of thinking about "what hands can I beat?"

now if he calls or raises you can get away from the hand...if he still bluffs you, good for him

[BevillTheDevil]

not cbettin this flop isnt that terrible, I situations like this where we have position i like to check behind on the flop to gain value from other hands...the only reason im leaning toward a cbet here though is because we dont hold the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]...after checkin the flop callin the turn is ok and the river can almost go either way IMO but probably a high variance call??

[BevillTheDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
hra makes the perfect point about a cbet here.

if you're prepared to check behind on flop, and then call $11 on the turn, why not bet the $11 yourself on the flop, and put him in the position of thinking about "what hands can I beat?"

[/ QUOTE ]

well if we bet $11 on the flop after 3bettin pf w/ an A on the board it could make villian fold out anything we beat and get called probably by only hands that beat us...when we check yes we show weakness and his turn bet could be w/ 77+ and bluffs...