Comment on Affirmative Action debate

[iron81]

Use this thread to comment on the affirmative action debate between craigthedeac and TomCollins.

[Dan.]

Affirmative Action FTL

[hmkpoker]

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Affirmative Action FTL

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Really? I thought you were pro-AA [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[TomCollins]

I am waiting for craig to make the first post. It's kinda hard to refute it unless he makes a claim about it.

[Case Closed]

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I am waiting for craig to make the first post. It's kinda hard to refute it unless he makes a claim about it.

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A solid strategy for this debate IMO. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[JackWhite]

Tom, in your definition you didn't specifically mention government mandated AA. Is that what we are talking about? My opinion on that is different from a private company using some form of AA.

[TomCollins]

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Tom, in your definition you didn't specifically mention government mandated AA. Is that what we are talking about? My opinion on that is different from a private company using some form of AA.

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This is an excellent point. There are a couple of ways it can debated:

1) Should government be allowed to use it (and what are the limits that should be imposed, if any)?

2) Should the government mandate affirmative action in private organizations?

3) Should private orginizations use affirmative action (is it a good thing for them)?

4) Should private orginizations be allowed to use affirmative action?

For all practical purposes, I would like the debate to be centered around 1 and 3.

If I am successful in my debate, #2 will be useless. #4 is another issue, and I personally believe that all private orginizations should be able to exclude or include whoever they please. I also support the rights of the public to boycott or protest against racist orginizations as well.

[Dan.]

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Affirmative Action FTL

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Really? I thought you were pro-AA [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Oh how wrong you are, my child. I don't believe I've ever addressed the topic on this board, but meh, I'm quite against it.

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an excellent point. There are a couple of ways it can debated:

1) Should government be allowed to use it (and what are the limits that should be imposed, if any)?

2) Should the government mandate affirmative action in private organizations?

3) Should private orginizations use affirmative action (is it a good thing for them)?

4) Should private orginizations be allowed to use affirmative action?

For all practical purposes, I would like the debate to be centered around 1 and 3.

If I am successful in my debate, #2 will be useless. #4 is another issue, and I personally believe that all private orginizations should be able to exclude or include whoever they please. I also support the rights of the public to boycott or protest against racist orginizations as well.


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I think #1 will be the main issue people will want to discuss. Even though the overall merits of private businesses and organizations using AA are certainly worthy of a good discussion.

I have mixed feelings on the issue (#1 that is). I know so many blacks stepped into the battersbox down 0-1 or 0-2 in the count because of past injustice. Even the greatest hitters in history had bad averages when down in the count. So I am sympathetic to the goals of helping people out who are down in the count thru little or no fault of there own.

However, I just cannot get over the problem of having government using race to give benefits to one group at the expense of others. As a result, I am opposed to government mandated AA based on race. I am much more sympathetic to giving benefits, especially in education, based on means, not race. Since blacks are disproportionaly poor, they would benefit from means related AA, without using race.

[lehighguy]

Even the supreme court has rejected the "redress past discrimination" argument. Perhaps another starting point?