tptk oop vs a raise on a flush draw flop? 2/4

[Rounder 24/7]

Villian is a 25/8/1.2 player

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB.


If u put a player on a possible draw here (the flop) ... should u be 3-beting? or wait for a turn check raise when a blank hits? well thats what i was going to do but when the 3rd flush card dropped I didn't know how to play it and called down like a bum. Would i be right in thinking this turn is the perfect candidate for a bet/fold?

[jba]

this looks fine to me. no dont fold.

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
this looks fine to me. no dont fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

holllllllllaaaa

[bernie]

Stat-wise, that's a pretty passive opponent. If he's on a flush draw, he'd probably check the turn. I might've 3 bet him on the flop.

I'm thinking the running 2 pair counterfeited him but I'm not sure I'd bet this river.

b

[Rounder 24/7]

so you're saying if choosing whether to 3-bet the flop or ch-r the turn it depends on whether u think an opponent is likely of raising with a flush draw? I'd like to know for future reference. I suppose if you've seen a player raise with a flush draw for a free card before ... then 3-beting is the better option, otherwise you'll lose out on a turn bet by going for the check-raise. But against a passive opponent that gives u no reason to suspect he might be raising with a draw the way i played the hand is fine?

[Oink]

How many flush draw hands is in a 25/8 players range here? KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT are 6 combos. Of AJ alone there is 8 combos. Even if villain calls with lower sc's, which I doubt, its still not that big a part of his range IMO.

What I am trying to say is that I am not that scared of a flush draw so if I dont 3-bet the flop I raise the river. With the paired board he is less likely to 3-bet with a flush tho its not impossible.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
so you're saying if choosing whether to 3-bet the flop or ch-r the turn it depends on whether u think an opponent is likely of raising with a flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it depends on the opponent. This opponents stats are pretty passive for a 6 max game.

[ QUOTE ]
But against a passive opponent that gives u no reason to suspect he might be raising with a draw the way i played the hand is fine?

[/ QUOTE ]

Except you might want to find out if he has 2 pair on the flop instead of on the turn. This guys hand range might not be that wide to c/r the turn. If he caps the flop, you can go into call down mode(maybe even fold, but it might be too early for that). Remember, there's a reason we call them 'passive'.

Note that you also can be representing a flush draw by jamming the flop a little. Even though you're OOP. Your range should be wide enough here that he might bet the turn even after you 3 bet the flop.

b

[danzasmack]

I've slowly come to the realization that always trying to put the last raise in when you have the best hand in will result in a few big wins and a ton of huge losses.

[Rounder 24/7]

well it turned out he had the flush with QT. Now play this hand again even though the player might be passive, knowing he is capable of raising the flop with a flush draw how should u approach it? 3-bet flop, bet/fold turn if flush drops? if flush doesn't hit turn ... bet/call if he raises? Im assuming if he's prepared to raise the turn here then we must accept we're beat - do you call to hit any possible outs? say the turn isn't a flush card and he just calls ur bet but the flush card comes on the river ... check/call? or should it be a bet/fold? would folding to a raise on the river against a "passive" player be a disciplined fold or a big mistake?

[Gurravasa]

I think there is 47 possible hands villain can hold. KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, AK(8 combos), AQ(6 combos), AJ(8combos), A7(6 combos), A6 (6combos), 77 (3 combos), 66 (3 combos) and AhAd. Against these hands we win 20, tie 6 and lose 21. Thus I would suggest a call on river.

I know I will probably get my ass kicked with this post, but I can take it [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]...