Too aggressive for weak kicker? 2/4 6max

Rounder 24/7 · #1 03-19-2007, 10:21 PM

Cryptologic 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4.00 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB.

Bobo Fett · #2 03-19-2007, 10:26 PM

OK, I'll be brave and finally make my first reply to a hand posting.

I'd be raising that river...everyone's backed off, I'm not too worried about anyone holding a 6 after the flop action.

I'd also think about raising pre-flop, but maybe that's wrong.

yourface · #3 03-19-2007, 10:33 PM

reads would _really_ help here. also I would have raised preflop which would change the action a lot.

as played, I just call down from the turn donk vs unknowns.

Rounder 24/7 · #4 03-19-2007, 10:36 PM

is the 3-bet on the flop ok?

yourface · #5 03-19-2007, 10:41 PM

I like it. again reads would help a lot here, but BB could be betting any pair or draw, and UTG could have a worse J, KT/AT, pair+fd, maybe more. there is a very good chance you are ahead here so get the money in the pot and charge them to draw out on you.

Rev. Good Will · #6 03-19-2007, 11:36 PM

I'd usually raise preflop against most lineups behind me.

As played, I like the flop 3bet. On a board this coordinated, the bet and raise could possibly be a draw (though probably less likely the raise is a draw).

The turn donk made by UTG is odd, signifying (IMO) a made hand, as the only plausible hands that beat you now are KJ/AJ/JT. Barring reads, the most likely out of the bunch is JT, and you beat plenty more of his "made hands" range (T's and weaker J's, once again depending on reads). That being said, I like a raise in that spot, as BB's line looks more like a weaker made hand, 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]'s or a straight draw.

I might find a bet on the river depending on how loose postflop BB/UTG are (so how much of the weaker made hands are in that range) but barring reads, and having busted draws take up most of their range, I can find a check.

yourface · #7 03-20-2007, 12:50 AM

I don't agree with the raise against an unknown here. I think you might be being results oriented here after seeing the later action. yes we would like to charge the BB to draw, but this is a big show of strength by UTG and I don't think we're ahead nearly often enough to raise.

downrange · #8 03-20-2007, 12:52 AM

I think reads really would've helped here pf and otherwise.

On that board with your hand 4-way, flop 3-bet seems excessive. Readless I can see better J's not raising pf 3/4-handed, fl/str draws limping, etc., so IMM if you aren't behind you're dodging bullets mway w/a mushy hand. I'd rather call and eval turn since realistically you can only hope to fold one no-draw/no-hand at best and could be in bad shape on turn.

utg reads really would've helped for turn - against unk. here given things I'm inclined to call.

Because I think rvr only 1 hand calls and seems more likely than not it's better than yours I'd check behind.

Rounder 24/7 · #9 03-20-2007, 12:55 AM

time for results?

UTG limped in with AA
BB had a weak J.

I felt my play was very border line and was under the impression that just calling and not even trying to shut out possible draws was wrong.

I know this imformation shouldnt change the way I could have played the hand but at what point in the hand should I have changed my line?

Rev. Good Will · #10 03-20-2007, 01:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree with the raise against an unknown here. I think you might be being results oriented here after seeing the later action. yes we would like to charge the BB to draw, but this is a big show of strength by UTG and I don't think we're ahead nearly often enough to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say this, and it is a good point, but you have yet to provide with hand ranges you give to UTG.

Yes, it is a strong line, but I think the only hands UTG can play like this is JT, maybe underplayed 33, but also J9, maybe J8, probably lots of T's. Combine that with getting a double bet from BB, and I think this is a raise (though probably close).