fishy river bet?

[gedanken]

Hi, my first post here. This place is amazing! I still have a lot to learn.

I'm playing a 5+1 no-limit tournament on pokerstars, and another player derided my fishy play.

Table is loose and passive, so I thought I had a good shot at seeing a multiway flop cheap. Villian is a tightish conservative player. People are respecting my raises.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)


SB (villian)/ (t1455)
BB (t2025)
UTG (t1720)
Hero (t1550)
MP1 (t3285)
MP2 (t1410)
CO (t965)
Button (t1090)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4, A.
1 fold</font>, Hero calls t50, 1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t50, ]1 fold</font>, Button calls t50, SB (villian)/ completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t250) 5, 6, T (5 players)</font>
villian checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t250) T (5 players)</font>
villian bets t50</font>, BB folds, Hero raises to t300</font>, MP2 folds, Button folds, villian calls t250.

River: (t850) 2 (2 players)</font>
villian checks, Hero bets t400</font>.


I know I've got major leaks, but I didn't think I blew this hand so badly. My turn raise was clearly a semibluff.

Thanks for any help!

[Kevin8423]

This hand should be folded preflop to keep out of marginal situations, but assuming you make the call you should check the flop like you did. I would just call on the turn though, no reason to invest such a huge chunk of your stack on a draw that will likely miss. While the villain could be stealing he could also have a PP or some other piece of the board (if not the 10). Just call here and get it all in if you make your flush.

[J-P]

Fold pf.
As played, turn raise is awful, just fold there. Now that you made your flush on the river, 400 is a good sized bet.

[mscheesecake]

A lot of people will probably disagree, but as ill advised as the turn raise was (don't mind the limp preflop but burning 20% of your stack on a semi-bluff I don't agree with...), I'd move in on the river for two reasons:

1) Betting that big makes it look like a bluff (and at this level there are people happy to call you down with Ax or worse).

2) Your hand is well hidden because of the runner runner point.

I've found a lot of people at low levels can be be baited into calling an all-in.

[goatsnake_au]

[ QUOTE ]
turn raise is awful, just fold there.

[/ QUOTE ]

arent we getting 6 - 1 pot odds to call this turn bet ? Isnt this a call ? If not what odds do we need to draw to our flush ?

[Kevin8423]

While the odds may be there, you have to consider the value of losing chips compared to the value gaining them. From around a starting stack losing 300 chips for example is much different than gaining 300. With that said... im calling this draw and betting 400 when it hits like you did hoping for the villain to come back over the top.

[sippin_criss]

Fold preflop you will probably lose too many chips when a bare ace flops judging from this hand, and that doesn't make up for the times when you make 2 pair or a flush, not to mention often the pf action will be raised after you.

On the turn you're getting really good pot odds so you should just call. The only time you should really semi-bluff is if you're probably a coinflip if you get called and the pot is big enough to warrant it.

It's funny that the title of this thread is fishy river bet because that's the only street besides the flop that you played correctly. I think you could maybe get away with betting a little bit more assuming villain at least has a pair, since he won't give you credit for a ten but it's fine.

[gedanken]

Ok, I certainly hated his turn call at the time. I was about 80% sure he'd fold after his tiny bet. Didn't give him credit for a ten at all. I mean, if I had it, I'd bet enough to push dorks like me off a draw!

I was also thinking that if a flush hit after such an obvious call, he wouldn't be calling any real river bet.

I did some math and if he folds/calls the turn 80/20 then always calls the half-pot river bet, I average +248. If I call the turn and he always calls a half-pot river bet, I'm only +57. If he sometimes folds to a river bet, it's much worse.

I guess I'm just wildly overestimating his fear of the turn raise. If he calls 50% of the time, I'm still +175, 3x better than calling.

This isn't a ring game, so the math IS bogus. But it seems to agree with my turn bet at some level. I'll keep thinking on it. Y'all obviously know more than I do.

Yeah, PF under the gun, I should have folded. Just watching too many 6-limper pots. It won't happen again.

mscheescake's thinking led to the misguided post subject: The other player's disgust was that I didn't stack him with the flush.

thanks!