early on in a loose passive game

Guruman · #1 12-16-2006, 12:55 AM

still adjusting to conditions at stars since i've not been able to find many wpex games as of late.

This table's been playing pretty loosely and passively preflop, though I don't have any notes on anyone yet with regards to postflop play. lots of multiway unraised pots though.

I'm just about never faced with an ep limper at wpex, so I very well could have screwed pf up pretty nicely. I figured my hand was too good to fold, but not strong enough to raise in this spot, as I expected the blinds to come along with a very very wide range.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Guruman is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, Guruman calls (2.33333333333:1), CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.33SB, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Guruman raises, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6.17BB, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Guruman bets, Button calls, BB calls, UTG folds.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9.17BB, 3 players)
BB checks, Guruman checks, Button bets, BB calls, Guruman folds.

Results:
Final pot: 11.17BB

bbbushu · #2 12-16-2006, 01:36 AM

i'd raise or fold pre-flop but i think my pre-flop is all screwed up. sure makes this hand easier to play but i think after over-limping pre-flop, this is totally standard.

bbbushu

Regis · #3 12-16-2006, 03:15 AM

Show 'em the hand where you limp/cap 86s preflop from utg! I'd like to see the comments on that gem. Seriously.

Carmine · #4 12-16-2006, 07:57 AM

PF is a judgement call with the usual variables. How loose the blinds/table is, how much better than your opponents you play etc. Raising, calling and folding can all be correct as per your reads. I do more raising/folding in that spot than calling. I'll call more in a over-over-limp situation.

Flop is good.

Turn is the questionable street. When four players (three of which CC my raise) see this turn it might be time to c/fold the hand. This may seem weak, but let's face it we made a very questionable call PF. To make that call even slightly correct(meaning we play well enough postflop to know when to get away from a hand) c/folding I think is the right play. How often do you really think you are ahead on that turn? Note also that even if we check and it went bet/call/call that all our T outs are extremly tainted along with the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

River, as played is good.

jt1 · #5 12-16-2006, 10:14 AM

People are saying flop is standard: I disagree. This isn't an 'everybody is weak, my hand may be good type of bet'. This is a 'there are 3 other players in here with me, two of them are left to act and they voluntarily put money in the pot and the board is loaded and i'm UTG' type bet.

However, I don't usually overlimp UTG+1 w/ QTo unless UTG or one of the blinds is a terrible player.

Once there on the turn, i ALWAYS check 4 way with middle pair IF two of those players cold called two on the flop.

River is good.

Guruman · #6 12-16-2006, 10:20 AM

so everyone is folding this preflop? given the postflop lines these specific opponents took is that correct?

jt1 · #7 12-16-2006, 10:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
given the postflop lines these specific opponents took is that correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put. I said if any of the blinds or UTG were horrible then I play that where you did. Without a read or with just a general feeling for the game, I'd wait for better reads.

Guruman · #8 12-16-2006, 10:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Show 'em the hand where you limp/cap 86s preflop from utg! I'd like to see the comments on that gem. Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt limp cap that from utg. I raise/capped it from the bb because the table was loosepassive as hell and I hated all of you. don't be bitter. (villain's the sb callingstation fish in the hand) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Guruman is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Guruman raises, UTG calls, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, Guruman caps, UTG calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (18SB, 4 players)
SB checks, Guruman checks, UTG checks, Button bets, SB calls, Guruman calls (20:1), UTG calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (11BB, 4 players)
SB checks, Guruman checks, UTG checks, Button checks.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (11BB, 4 players)
SB checks, Guruman bets, 2 folds, SB calls.

Results:
Final pot: 13BB

Carmine · #9 12-16-2006, 10:51 AM

Hey, I had an edit about my Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] misclick. Anyhow, JT are you saying Hero should be C/folding this flop?

jt1 · #10 12-16-2006, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyhow, JT are you saying Hero should be C/folding this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is after UTG who leads into the full field. I'm not saying not to ever raise but just that raising in this spot shouldn't be standard. I think without any reads in a small pot with two players left to act,another one waiting for the come around, an UTG doing the betting, and a cordinated board, I fold.