Maniacs make me into a donk

[nawhead]

By maniac, I mean a player who will play any 2 cards up to about a 10x bb preflop raise, in any position, and will play most pairs to the river against PSB's.

These type of players completely throw me off my game. I know they're guaranteed to lose their stack, but I get it into my mind that I have to be the one to get a big chunk of their stack or else I'm playing bad. If I get into a pot with them, I'm pretty much guaranteed to slowplay big pairs or bluff into them. I feel ok bluffing into them because they're not a calling station, they bet and call with any two, even queen high, and my range is better than them, so I must be ahead, right? Is this the right mindset to have against a maniac?

I also get tunnel vision, my eyes glued to this maniac's actions and how other people are reacting to him. Then some rock raises my CB and I forget that I'm not even in a pot with the maniac but play like I am. It's like I feel the cosmos has shifted because this maniac is taking down 40bb pots with 2nd pair so my top pair must be GOLD.

Then once my TPTK gets cracked, I insta-tilt, destroying any profits I made up to that point. But that's another story.

I'm beginning to think that I need to just leave the table when I see a manic sit down since I'm almost guaranteed to tilt, whether I play in a pot with them or not. What do you do?

[wickedgoodtrader]

Playing against a maniac is easy and very profitable.. if you wanna make money you better learn how.

[jtr]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing against a maniac is easy and very profitable.. if you wanna make money you better learn how.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't really get this forum thing do you?

[_TKO_]

Tend to play more passively against a maniac; it'll save you your mind and money.

[nawhead]

I've also tried the passive approach. That's what I mean by I turn into a donk. I sit their and get stacked check-calling with TPTK or overpair.

Can anybody keep playing after such an embarrassing hand? Should I be embarrassed for calling down a maniac with one pair?

Then of course he bluffs someone on the turn on the next hand with 5 high... and the tilt monster wakes up.

[GREEN GAMBLER]

Nothing wrong with calling with TPTK. Try keeping the pot small by check calling his bets. If its a full game, remember he's gonna lose his cash! But you'll only get a piece of it. If there's Eight other players you should win 1/8th of it. Good luck

[AlienBoy]

Repeat after me:

Maniacs are fun!
Maniacs are fun!
They shoot themselves
In the foot
Using their own gun!


Get it?

In live play:

Sit on their immediate left. Look for tells. Most maniacs have such obvious tells, my friggin CAT could figure out what they held.

If you see that they can fold, and you know their tell for weakness, you *can* bluff them with air - but be *very* careful with this play.

Most of the time, just wait till you have a good hand, and let them bet into you. Show weakness by limping/calling/checking.

You can often win with TPTK if you PUSH flop. Maniacs don't like to be pushed around and they often call flop pushes with mid pair or draws.

Once the maniac fears YOU, they are fish ready to be filleted.

AB

[e_phemeral]

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Tend to play more passively against a maniac; it'll save you your mind and money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is bad advice. (Maybe it is intended to be!) Many people (myself included) play an aggressive style that appears maniacal but is really not, it's just a loose aggressive style. I will bet and raise constantly. I will play a ton of pots and play them aggressively. But I will also back off and fold hands when I think I've run into a hand. The beauty of having a "maniacal" image is that when I do hit a flop or a turn or a river, I can value bet like crazy and people will call me down and pay me off. I try not to lose any big pots betting or raising with air. But I definitely creat a "maniac" image through the sheer number of pots that I play and number of bets and raises that I throw out there.

I absolutely destroy passive players. Passive players will let me bet draws, catch draws and then pay me off because they never give me credit for anything. The amount of money that I make from passive players from stealing their blinds and from them folding to my continuation bets on the flop more than make up for the small pot that the passive wins when he hits a hand and calls me down. Why? Because it's totally obvious when one of them has hit a hand. Also, I'm usually going to have position on them. They get no action. You check-call my flop bet and I may slow down, unless I'm actually value betting a made hand. You check again on the turn, then maybe I check and hit my draw on the river. You bet river, I muck. You win small. I win big.

I think the better advice to counter a maniac is to selectively outmaniac the maniac. If someone is betting and raising constantly, you need to slow them down by betting into them and reraising them. You don't need to have a hand to do this. In fact, players who sit passively and let the maniac run over them over and over again, and then finally take a stand when they hit a big hand may find that the maniac just folds and they get no action. I think the better strategy is to selectively get aggressive against the maniac and also mix in some check calling, but I think the check calling is a better strategy if you have position on the "maniac". If you are out of position, I think betting and raising or checkraising is better against a "maniac." And if you are a passive type player that doesn't like to mix it up, maybe you just pick up and leave when the "maniac" sits, because your style is not going to work (unless you have the ability to constantly flop monsters).

[AlienBoy]

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I think the better advice to counter a maniac is to selectively outmaniac the maniac

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QFT

Yas gotta gets down 'n dirty wit 'em!!

AB



P.S. You also *have* to be comfortable playing LAG confidently. A maniac will eat you for dinner if he senses the slightest weakness.

[Gonso]

I also think being a little passive is correct here.

OP mentioned that this guy is calling down with low pairs and Q high. You want to out-maniac him? You're going to punk him down with garbage?

Besides that, you're not taking into account how vulnerable this will make you to the rest of the table - they are still there, after all. This strategy is very exploitable.

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I absolutely destroy passive players. Passive players will let me bet draws, catch draws and then pay me off because they never give me credit for anything. The amount of money that I make from passive players from stealing their blinds and from them folding to my continuation bets on the flop more than make up for the small pot that the passive wins when he hits a hand and calls me down. Why? Because it's totally obvious when one of them has hit a hand. Also, I'm usually going to have position on them. They get no action. You check-call my flop bet and I may slow down, unless I'm actually value betting a made hand. You check again on the turn, then maybe I check and hit my draw on the river. You bet river, I muck. You win small. I win big.

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There's a big difference between a true maniac and a good LAG - calling 10BB with T8 isn't all that bad against a guy who will go all the way with unimproved aces - if you're both deep enough.

Also, there's also a big difference between "passive players" and those simply playing a little more passive against a certain opponent type. Calling stations act in the way you describe.

That's not to say that you can't open up your range and make use of your position against a real maniac, but I'd be more inclined to value bet guys like this. If they overbet their draws and so on, then they're making mistakes.

Also, playing short against these guys isn't a bad idea either, at least until you get accustomed to dealing with them - you'll want some more money on the table when you do.