Foxwoods 10-25, straight draw on a 2flush board

[B-Man]

Foxwoods 10-25. Opponent came to the game a half hour ago, I've never played with him before but by reputation have heard he is a strong player. He bought in for over $10,000 and has the table covered. He's seemed to be loose aggressive so far, especially in position (he raised with 52s one hand).

I've been playing fairly tight in the brief time he's been at the table.

I start the hand with $3,300.

Two limpers, I limp in the cutoff+1 with 89o (no hearts), opponent makes it 125 to go from the cutoff, the limpers call, I call.

$575 in pot

7c Th Qh

The limpers check, I check.

1. Opponent bets $400. Limpers fold. I think this guy could have any two cards. How should I play this?

2. Assume I think for over a minute, then check-raise to $1,200, then opponent insta-pushes. I'm getting 5:2 pot odds. Given how I've seen him play, and that my taking so long to check-raise could have been perceived as weakness, I think my opponent's range here is still pretty wide. Should I call?

[g-p]

i dont like the check raise, i would just check call. try to bluff the flush if it hits.

[Well_TiMeD]

im not good with the math but even if his range is wide it looks like ur drawing to a maximum of 8 outs. plus, i dont think his range is really as wide as you think- i fold here for sure

[Get_better_Baris]

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i dont like the check raise, i would just check call. try to bluff the flush if it hits.

[/ QUOTE ]
i like this in position g-p. whats your plan if turn is a heart? or if turn bricks since u r oop.

[Blizzardbaum]

fwiw, if i'm villain then i find your c/r very fishy. you obviously don't have a made hand because you're not going to risk having the 2-heart board checked through on the flop when two of the other three players in the hand limped pf. making it $1200 is very bad here because it allows the original raiser to 3bet against what is a transparently weak hand.

As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum. 2) What do you think villain's range is here? I don't think its that wide once he 3bets all-in. If you call here, you are drawing to a straight and nothing else.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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fwiw, if i'm villain then i find your c/r very fishy. you obviously don't have a made hand because you're not going to risk having the 2-heart board checked through on the flop when two of the other three players in the hand limped pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is questionable: villain is most likely betting this flop so a check/raise with a made hand isn't out of the question. Also, people slowplay in all sorts of weird spots.
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making it $1200 is very bad here because it allows the original raiser to 3bet against what is a transparently weak hand.


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The real problem with it is that it commits hero to calling an all-in and you generally don't want to commit yourself to all-in without actually going all in.
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As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is laughably wrong:3 limp/callers are not much to worry about when you have position. A good lag has no problems betting into many opponents if they're weak enough.
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2) What do you think villain's range is here? I don't think its that wide once he 3bets all-in. If you call here, you are drawing to a straight and nothing else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or he has a flush draw and your pair outs are good, but yeah: if he pushes you're not in great shape but you still have to call.

[B-Man]

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fwiw, if i'm villain then i find your c/r very fishy. you obviously don't have a made hand because you're not going to risk having the 2-heart board checked through on the flop when two of the other three players in the hand limped pf. making it $1200 is very bad here because it allows the original raiser to 3bet against what is a transparently weak hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

In hindsight, I agree the check-raise looks a little fishy, especially when I thought about it for so long. I think he read this as weakness, hence his instapush. So do you check-call? And what happens if I miss the turn, check-fold?

[ QUOTE ]
As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum. 2) What do you think villain's range is here? I don't think its that wide once he 3bets all-in. If you call here, you are drawing to a straight and nothing else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his continuation bet could be any 2, but I agree that once he pushes, his range is more narrow (its certainly not air). I still think he could have any flush draw (not just the nut flush draw), AA, KK, QQ, JJ (that would suck), TT, 77, and maybe AQ or KQ. If he has JJ or a set then I am getting the worst of it if I call (but not by a lot), otherwise I think I am getting the best of it (again, not by much) if I call.

[B-Man]

FF, how would you play the flop?

[Blizzardbaum]

[ QUOTE ]

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As for your assumptions... 1) I don't think villain has ATC here if he's as strong as his reputation because he won't cbet 4-handed unless he is reasonably strong. This is AQ/KQ at a minimum.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is laughably wrong:3 limp/callers are not much to worry about when you have position. A good lag has no problems betting into many opponents if they're weak enough.


[/ QUOTE ]

FF, From villain's perspective, his table image, the combination of 3 limp/callers and the extremely draw heavy flop, I think Villain would be especially wary of cbetting lite here. Obviously, a good lag will bet into opponents when weak if he/she believes the pot can be bought, but there is a big difference between being a good lag and spewing.

[Get_better_Baris]

"Assume I think for over a minute, then check-raise to $1,200"
i would raise more on flop or bet3bet. or do the once in a blue moon suicidal mini raise(or close to it to setup psb on turn) and move in on turn.bbbbbbbboooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm