Tough decisions with kickers

[huber117]

heres a major problem i bet most people have, but dont know how to deal with. say your on the button holding A-10o preflop, raise 3xBB, 3 callers. flop is A-9-4 rainbow. BB bets big, MPs fold, BBs bet is large enough to force you all in. what do you do?

the way i figure , with three callers preflop, one must have at least A-x. This situation comes up many times im sure you all know, my point is, what would a real pro do? im not asking for that "it depends" crap. my point is, theres no defense against kicker problems that i know of. straights, flushes, etc are easy to spot, but in poker many situations come up where two players face off, and its the kicker that decides it, but you cant really put someone on the EXACT card- similar to a four-flush turn with 3 ppl seeing it, hero holds queen high. anybody have any advice?

[TheBlueMonster]

so there was a limper and you raise with A10? And someone bets out, out of position? Easy fold.

[umdpoker]

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so there was a limper and you raise with A10? And someone bets out, out of position? Easy fold.

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seriously.

[deacsoft]

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...that "it depends" crap...

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That's what poker is. If you knew that you would have included some thoughs on the range of hands your opponent may be playing and how often he's made similar plays in similar situations. You also would have mentioned how big the stacks are and how big the blinds are. So it does depend.

[Oberonn]

The way I read it there were two limpers before he raised pre-flop and they both called after the BB called.

In the scenario described it is an easy fold.

What puzzles me is, holding AT, what do you really want to see on the flop knowing that both limpers and the BB are getting great odds to see the flop with you.

Tough post-flop kicker decisions frequently are the result of pre-flop confusion.

[Fei]

First of all, if playing online, I wouldn't raise 3xBB when on the button with A, 10. I would've just called. If SB and/or BB raised 3xBB, I would even fold A, 10 after placing the BB value if unsuited. The limpers may be calling with Ace-rags and most likely made two pair, A, 9 or A, 4 in this case. Even when playing online, when guessing the hands of limpers in the SB and BB after a strong bet or re-raise coming from them, you HAVE to consider the fact that their cards can be rags and that they've hit two pair the least. Even if you have notes on the BB player currently betting big that he's a bad player, that he overbets the pot, it is not sufficient info for you to call. Around 85% of strong bets and re-raises are because they do have a strong hand. Why bother with such an unfavorable odd. The only way I would call this bet is if the BB player had lost a big hand in a previous hand and is mostly on tilt, otherwise it is an easy fold.

[huber117]

ok, yes, in THIS particular situation, i understand why most people would fold, but it seems to me that some of you feel that just because someone bets or raises, they must have an awesome hand. obviously the BB would love for me to fold on the flop since the pot is big enough anyways. if he really had top two pair, would he bet that big, would you? from early position with what is arguably going to be the best hand, wouldnt you rather check-raise/ slowplay? i wasnt asking for advice on how to play that specific situation, i was asking for advice on these situations in general, say one person holding KJ, aother KQ, and a flop of K-4-2 rainbow, how do you handle holding hands like KJ?

[TheBlueMonster]

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how do you handle holding hands like KJ?

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by usually not playing it.
You seem to think this is a widespread problem. It is, but only for weaker players.
The kicker problems you seem to be running into stems from playing weak hands. Unless you are confident with your hand reading ability, I'd suggest playing tighter.

[Oberonn]

KJ is very similar to AT.

What exactly are you looking to flop?

These type hands are vulnerable when making top pair on the flop.

This is the best I can do without being able to use "it depends".

[themandude]

Don't be a nit, noone likes them, if you are good enough to read the board/players you should be able to play a bunch of hands and know when to get off them and know when to push them. You make more/faster money this way and it's more entertaining.