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#1
09-22-2006, 04:42 PM
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Is Another War on the Way?
Apparently the Times is reporting that "Prepare to Deploy" orders were issued...
What Would War Look Like? [ QUOTE ] The first message was routine enough: a "Prepare to Deploy" order sent through naval communications channels to a submarine, an Aegis-class cruiser, two minesweepers and two mine hunters. The orders didn't actually command the ships out of port; they just said to be ready to move by Oct. 1. But inside the Navy those messages generated more buzz than usual last week when a second request, from the Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), asked for fresh eyes on long-standing U.S. plans to blockade two Iranian oil ports on the Persian Gulf. [/ QUOTE ] thenation.com is reporting that a aircraft carrier and other ships have been ordered to go the Gulf...(I don't know much about how reliable thenation.com is as a source, though...) War Signals? [ QUOTE ] As reports circulate of a sharp debate within the White House over possible US military action against Iran and its nuclear enrichment facilities, The Nation has learned that the Bush Administration and the Pentagon have issued orders for a major "strike group" of ships, including the nuclear aircraft carrier Eisenhower as well as a cruiser, destroyer, frigate, submarine escort and supply ship, to head for the Persian Gulf, just off Iran's western coast. This information follows a report in the current issue of Time magazine, both online and in print, that a group of ships capable of mining harbors has received orders to be ready to sail for the Persian Gulf by October 1. [/ QUOTE ] In addition, other sites are pointing toward the potential for conflict between Syria and Israel...(Again, reliable sources??) Damascus official: Syria losing patience with Israel [ QUOTE ] Syrian Information Minister Mohsen Bilal said that his country is losing patience in the matter of the Golan Heights, and that the Syrians would not wait much longer before they act. "Syria has made a strategic choice for peace, but it will not wait much longer before it recaptures the Golan Heights," Bilal told Egyptian newspaper al-Ahram al-Arabi. "The Syrian people have waited 40 years for the implementation of the United Nations Security Council resolutions, but to no avail, and they are losing their patience," he stated. [/ QUOTE ] While of this is going on, the Middle East appears to be literally foaming at the mouth, as the riots over the cartoons and the recent papal remarks demonstrate. 
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#2
09-22-2006, 05:02 PM
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Re: Is Another War on the Way?
Iran has refused the demands of the US and other nations regarding its nuclear program. So it's time to put up or shut up for us. And Israel's main target should be Syria and not Lebanon, as the supplying of Hezbollah is much more difficult without Syrian help. But we shouldn't be going there with some half-ass intention to "show them we're serious" or something in the form of just a few strikes and allowing them to regroup and form plans to retaliate, most likely through supplying terrorists who will do their bidding, including possibly with small nuclear devices. So if we go in, we need to pound them with everything we got and knock them down so they (Iran & Syria) can't get up.
The true military lesson (aside from any political ones) of the Vietnam War is that you don't go in and slowly escalate. All that does is allow the enemy to build up his forces and utilize a plan of long term asymmetrical resistance to wear down your will to fight. So any war with them needs to be fought with the objective of totally defeating the enemy and removing his/their ability to fight. If you are going to step on a snake you better cut its head off before it bites you. All this means that all forms of weapons should be in the mix. Tactical nukes can be justified because if we fail and allow Iran to develop and use either itself or through its proxies, nukes on us, then the long term cost to us will be much higher. Iran has had plenty of chances, and still does, to back away from the precipice. If they won't and get pushed over it's on them.
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#4
09-22-2006, 05:11 PM
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Re: Is Another War on the Way?
[ QUOTE ]
But we shouldn't be going there with some half-ass intention to "show them we're serious" or something in the form of just a few strikes and allowing them to regroup and form plans to retaliate, most likely through supplying terrorists who will do their bidding, including possibly with small nuclear devices. [/ QUOTE ] Is there any evidence that Iran has either the desire or wherewithal to do this? If you think that crazy rhetoric by Ahmadinejad is hard evidence then I suppose we'll have to disagree on that one.
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#5
09-22-2006, 05:14 PM
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Re: Is Another War on the Way?
The cowardly appeasing politicans of pre-WWII europe didn't take Hitler's "crazy rhetoric" seriously either. If someone says he's going to shoot me as soon as he gets a gun, and a 3rd party can't stop him from doing so, I'm not just going to wait for him to get it or go through life looking over my shoulder. Pre-emptive strikes in response to deadly threats are justified.
morph: Yes I think war with Iran is coming, and between Israel and Syria as well. We shouldn't change our position, and they won't. That means conflict.
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#6
09-22-2006, 05:45 PM
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Re: Is Another War on the Way?
The real lesson of viet nam was that you cannot occupy a country that does not want to be occupied. This is also the lesson of Iraq, Korea, Afghanistan, among many other examples through history. You can destroy it (perhaps) by exterminating every man, woman and child but you cannot occupy it.
I take it you are for a cleansing of all human life in Syria and/or Iran? Specially with the comments of use of tactical nukes.
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#7
09-22-2006, 06:04 PM
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Re: Is Another War on the Way?
[ QUOTE ]
The real lesson of viet nam was that you cannot occupy a country that does not want to be occupied. This is also the lesson of Iraq, Korea, Afghanistan, among many other examples through history. You can destroy it (perhaps) by exterminating every man, woman and child but you cannot occupy it. I take it you are for a cleansing of all human life in Syria and/or Iran? Specially with the comments of use of tactical nukes. [/ QUOTE ] Did Imperial Japan want to be occupied in 1945? I think not, yet the U.S. had little trouble with resistance there after the surrender. The key is that the enemy is totally defeated, which does not necessarily require the extermination of every person. It may require killing large numbers of them, however (like the U.S. did to Japan), which is why tactical nukes are suggested, as they are efficient for that purpose.
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#8
09-22-2006, 06:13 PM
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Re: Is Another War on the Way?
I have to say I'm neutral on this.
On one hand, I think Iran is a much bigger threat than Iraq was, although I believe they can still be deterred. They aren't under UN sanctions like Iraq was, they don't have weapon inspectors crawling up their butt, and they are much bigger on supporting terrorism than Saddam was. Throw on there that we're talking about a bombing campaign and blockade that is much easier than an invasion and an occupation and there are advantages. On the other hand, we have the Bush Administration, whose spectacular incompetence in both intel gathering and execution has left me to doubt whether Iran actually has a serious nuclear weapons program and whether bombing them will do any good. A good opinion piece on this subject was written by Charles Krauthammer where he lays out the disadvantages and advantages. Plus, there is the whole "make love, not war" argument. I don't know, I just don't know. But one thing I have learned from Iraq is, if we're not sure, we can't go. One more thing about Krauthammer is that he is a pretty reliable indicator of what the neo-cons in the White House are thinking. He is speaking of a bombing campaign as though it was inevitable. The fact that he is willing to make arguments against a campaign that he favors proves this. Based on this, I would be willing to take 2-1 or 3-1 that the bombs will fall within Bush's term.
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#9
09-22-2006, 06:18 PM
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Re: Is Another War on the Way?
Could this build-up just to enforce possible near-future sanctions?
"The Syrian people have waited 40 years for the implementation of the United Nations Security Council resolutions, but to no avail, and they are losing their patience," This part cracked me up, 40 years!LOL More proof that the UN is a damned joke.
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#10
09-22-2006, 06:23 PM
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Re: Is Another War on the Way?
Q: Is another war on the way?
A: Any way they can get it.* (* provided it's somebody else's kid who actually does the fighting) q/q
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